Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[GloryofGreece]

That's where I am at. I think the economic debate is a valid one, and we can compromise on that, but there is something deeper going on that the media and political class disguise with artificial economic divisions. Even in this forum, the characterization of this as "socialism" versus some other imaginary ideology is nonsense.

We are dealing with people who want to murder our civilization. Open borders is murder. It's inviting the same outcome as if we were conquested and defeated, but without the fighting. All this SJW nonsense is a war on the human mind and soul, the human family, and truth itself.

Agreed. Socialism/Progressiveness is just one aspect of it. Its one way to politically breakdown those things. Then there is the cultural/educational/media approaches to get what they want. Basic things like you said are being attacked or at least passive aggressively or subtly or in different ways. One of my students said , "there is no normal". I laughed out loud. There is no judgement. There is no God. The family and marriage has definitely been subverted through cultural , educational, and legal measures and techniques.

[BjornP]

Easily done.

Current French Nationalization:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... by_country

Simply compare the value of those nationalized assets against the value of the overall French economy and you'll find the *current* level of their socialized economy. In the 80's it was upwards of 25% socialized.

... and of course, that 25% of their economy needs tax revenue to operate, even if it falls 75% shy of EVERYTHING being socialized. So I find your 100% standard to be a little strange. It's not as if having the taxpayer subsidize a quarter of your economic output is negligible, since they don't subsidize 100%. Feel free to subsidize 25% of my lifestyle any time you want Bjorn - should be nothing to you, right?

So, your best "current" is 1982? I suppose you didn't bother checking up on the current (as in 2018) status of some of those companies mentioned as nationalized in 1982?

As for wether or not I'd subsidize your "lifestyle", depends on what you mean by a"lifestyle". Is driving a car to work a "lifestyle"? If your lifestyle leads to a growth in the economy, if the subsidy is a good investment, if it's managed properly and finally if it causes no harm to anyone, then I see no problem. If 25% of companies are/were nationalized (I doubt France in the 80's can be called socialized), then I expect and would demand that the part of my tax money that pay into those 25%, are managed well and that those companies make a profit that goes back into directly into benefitting the public.

[Montegriffo]

Macron's policies of privatisation, public spending cuts, globalisation and tax breaks for the rich are straight out of the playbook of the great socialist leader Margaret Thatcher.

[Otern]

Macron's policies of privatisation, public spending cuts, globalisation and tax breaks for the rich are straight out of the playbook of the great socialist leader Margaret Thatcher.

I could understand people viewing Hollande as a socialist. But Macron? Crack downs on unions, taking away worker's rights, tax breaks for the rich, the list goes on. Macron is not a socialist, he's not even on the left. He's a neo-liberal that managed to get leftists to vote for him, because the option would've been quasi-fascist Le Pen.

[Montegriffo]

Macron's policies of privatisation, public spending cuts, globalisation and tax breaks for the rich are straight out of the playbook of the great socialist leader Margaret Thatcher.

I could understand people viewing Hollande as a socialist. But Macron? Crack downs on unions, taking away worker's rights, tax breaks for the rich, the list goes on. Macron is not a socialist, he's not even on the left. He's a neo-liberal that managed to get leftists to vote for him, because the option would've been quasi-fascist Le Pen.

I think that's why some Americans think he's far left. He beat the far right candidate so what else could he be.
10 pages of evidence to the contrary could not persuade DB that his policies are not socialist.
There is only us and them and if ''us'' means the right then ''them'' must be the left.
/shrug

[Hastur]

Macron's policies of privatisation, public spending cuts, globalisation and tax breaks for the rich are straight out of the playbook of the great socialist leader Margaret Thatcher.

I could understand people viewing Hollande as a socialist. But Macron? Crack downs on unions, taking away worker's rights, tax breaks for the rich, the list goes on. Macron is not a socialist, he's not even on the left. He's a neo-liberal that managed to get leftists to vote for him, because the option would've been quasi-fascist Le Pen.

True. France is like a lot of other European countries, split into three thirds. 1/3 globalist neoliberals, 1/3 government tit sucking commies and 1/3 neo nationalistic xenophobes. And they can't stand each other.

Meanwhile, Sweden still has no new government for the exact same reason. Not that anyone notices a difference which ought to scare the politicians the most.

[Otern]

True. France is like a lot of other European countries, split into three thirds. 1/3 globalist neoliberals, 1/3 government tit sucking commies and 1/3 neo nationalistic xenophobes. And they can't stand each other.

Meanwhile, Sweden still has no new government for the exact same reason. Not that anyone notices a difference which ought to scare the politicians the most.

1/3 boot licking globalist neoliberals. Americans would've been amazed how much these people trust the police, military, and the state in general.

1/3 government tit sucking commies, who also are very distrusting of the state. These people would fit right in with the american far right, with their attitudes to government authority, but not when it comes to government dependency.

1/3 nationalistic xenophobes. Who also fucking love the state, military, and police. And who aren't as "far right" as many americans believe, as they're very pro government spending on health care, social welfare and so on.

[PartyOf5]

FFS DB. How many times do you need to be told that Macron has cut welfare programs and plans to cut 120,000 public sector jobs before you admit that this tax has nothing to do with socialism?
The money raised is not going to prop up France's socialist policies. It is being spent on handouts to the rich and tax cuts for business in an attempt to stimulate the economy and balance the budget. The polar opposite of socialist.

Don't believe me? How about Bloomberg, or are they Socialists too?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -unpopular

Emmanuel Macron’s second budget as French president will hammer home an economic strategy that’s becoming increasingly unpopular: make work pay, whatever the cost.

His government will on Monday unveil plans for 2019 that include tax cuts for employers and their employees, building on sweeteners granted last year. But to foot the bill and keep the deficit in check, Macron will cap pensions and benefits not linked to work and ax jobs in the public sector.

Tax cuts, benefit caps and public sector jobs axed. MACRON HAS TO BE THE WORST SOCIALIST EVER.

Money raised from a new tax will be spent on tax cuts. This is how liberal Democrats think in the U.S. By not taking as much of our money from us they are giving us money. Sorry Monte but no, the government doesn't need income to spend on a tax cut. Maybe they will use the revenue from the new tax to pay for things that the other tax used to, but it is inaccurate to state that one tax is being spent on the cut of another.

I'm still very skeptical of where the money for the fuel tax is going. Based on what you just posted, the offset to the business tax cuts is reducing spending on public workers and their pensions. SO again, this does nothing to answer where the fuel tax revenue is really going.

[PartyOf5]

Europeans must be the only ones left with encyclopedias these days, I guess.

Must be. The rest of the world uses the internet. The Euros in this thread have shown that the EU has not mastered that method of information gathering yet.

[Hastur]

FFS DB. How many times do you need to be told that Macron has cut welfare programs and plans to cut 120,000 public sector jobs before you admit that this tax has nothing to do with socialism?
The money raised is not going to prop up France's socialist policies. It is being spent on handouts to the rich and tax cuts for business in an attempt to stimulate the economy and balance the budget. The polar opposite of socialist.

Don't believe me? How about Bloomberg, or are they Socialists too?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -unpopular

Emmanuel Macron’s second budget as French president will hammer home an economic strategy that’s becoming increasingly unpopular: make work pay, whatever the cost.

His government will on Monday unveil plans for 2019 that include tax cuts for employers and their employees, building on sweeteners granted last year. But to foot the bill and keep the deficit in check, Macron will cap pensions and benefits not linked to work and ax jobs in the public sector.

Tax cuts, benefit caps and public sector jobs axed. MACRON HAS TO BE THE WORST SOCIALIST EVER.

Money raised from a new tax will be spent on tax cuts. This is how liberal Democrats think in the U.S. By not taking as much of our money from us they are giving us money. Sorry Monte but no, the government doesn't need income to spend on a tax cut. Maybe they will use the revenue from the new tax to pay for things that the other tax used to, but it is inaccurate to state that one tax is being spent on the cut of another.

I'm still very skeptical of where the money for the fuel tax is going. Based on what you just posted, the offset to the business tax cuts is reducing spending on public workers and their pensions. SO again, this does nothing to answer where the fuel tax revenue is really going.

It doesn't matter where that exact money is going. Money is fungible. That is why it's called money. Earmarked funds is a myth. There is only + or -.