Meanwhile in Ukraine

[C-Mag]

He's Canadian. He don't even have know US.

What I'm hearing is the Ukrainian Strategy was to lose the Donbas and all their ports on the Black Sea, to see Russian petro traded in Rubles and to lose all their military equipment.

That crafty Zelensky has accomplished all of that, and snorted a helluva lot of coke.

[The Conservative]

you can only see America's strategic defeats

but can't see Russia's due to tunnel visioning on tactics

take your America Derangement Syndrome blinders off

if America invaded Ukraine and were doing this poorly

then you'd see it for the obvious clusterfuck that it is

but because Russia is doing it you think it's 4D Chess?

sad

right wing identity politics is a helluva drug

NEGATIVE. I haven't said any of that stuff.

What I did say a month ago about Mariupol was, 'We'll See' in response to being told Ukraine defeated Russia in Mariupol. Now you're telling me it doesn't matter. Though if you were paying attention, it mattered enough to Ukraine to fight to the last man.

Russia is not playing 4D chess, they just do war differently. The American way of war when successful is just more surgical than the Russians. We stand off, use Air power to destroy key infrastructure, communications, power, resources, when the battlfield is prepared only then do we move in with overwhelming force to make short quick violent attacks. See the Persian Gulf War or the Invasion of Iraq in 2003. That's American strategy done right.

Russians stand off, use massed artillery from afar and destroy everything in their path, not surgical, but same result, then move in slowly and destroy what is left.

In both cases, success requires leaders to have to take on the responsibility of the brutality of war and innocents getting killed. America is no longer willing to do that when they are clearly at the helm. We will do it all day long in proxy wars, but not when we clearly have the responsibility.

I want Peace. I want my leaders to negotiate a peace. Because I care about America, I don't want us involved in a Proxy War in Ukraine.

I still haven't heard a good reason for the US to be involved in this war.

I see a reason not to, and it's the same reason Biden shouldn't be in office right now. Corruption.

[C-Mag]

I see a reason not to, and it's the same reason Biden shouldn't be in office right now. Corruption.

There is no logical reason for it.

1) If Russia is so weak that it has been defeated by Ukraine, we certainly don't need to worry about them.
- Russia therefore cannot be a threat to NATO or Europe.
2) We clearly don't care about humanitarian fallout of wars, our last 30 years have proven that.
3) We have no National Security interests in Ukraine.

[Haumana]

because the Russians are not performing anywhere near well enough to take Ukraine

let alone hold it

Mariupol Schmariupol

the Russians have taken nothing of significance

and have paid a steep price for it

Orly? Based on what besides your opinion? Who said that their aim is to take all of Ukraine? Who would want to take Kiev? Whomever gets that is the ultimate loser. It would be akin to having to take on LA or San Fran in a lopped off California. Eastern Ukraine is now Russia forever. Odessa is the last puzzle piece to fall in place and control of the Black Sea is no small feat. Ukraine is looking to be landlocked and thus invaluable to NATO.

[C-Mag]

Orly? Based on what besides your opinion? Who said that their aim is to take all of Ukraine? Who would want to take Kiev? Whomever gets that is the ultimate loser. It would be akin to having to take on LA or San Fran in a lopped off California. Eastern Ukraine is now Russia forever. Odessa is the last puzzle piece to fall in place and control of the Black Sea is no small feat. Ukraine is looking to be landlocked and thus invaluable to NATO.

I see nothing stopping Russia from making the map below a reality. It's really just up to Putin and if he is will to expend enough blood and treasure to do it, and how much new equipment flows into the Ukraine to make Russia hurt.

The Ukraine has crews in undisclosed locations in the EU learning how to operate new equipment because Russia has destroy 90-95% of the Ukrainian military equipment. This means future battles will take place with Western equipment that Ukrainian and Mercenary forces just learned to use. And there will be a cat and mouse game between the West and Russia to get that equipment and troops to the battlefield before it is destroyed by long range missiles. This is essentially stretching the supply lines of the home defender.

That's a lesson in Strategy for anyone that needs it.

[Haumana]

I see nothing stopping Russia from making the map below a reality. It's really just up to Putin and if he is will to expend enough blood and treasure to do it, and how much new equipment flows into the Ukraine to make Russia hurt.

The Russian people are behind this. Western media portrays Putin as some sort of outlier but in Russia there is a contingent that is screaming about him not going far enough. He is a centrist in their world. This has always been way beyond just a guy. Hubris v Resolve is what we are witnessing. Which is which is still to be played out. I have my inklings and they aren't popular.

I do feel for Ukrainians except for the Nazis. The downplay from the West of how pervasive that ideology is in that culture is astounding. This all has me boggled like the WuFlu scare. Same people pushing, same scare tactics but it seems to have hit an additional group in their tickle spot to bring them on board and position them as the opposition.

[C-Mag]

The Azovstol Steel Plant

Which immediately brings to my mind the tractor factory in Stalingrad. It's the last hiding place of the remnants of the Mariupol Azov BN. They are deep in the tunnels below the factory. Russia has encircled the factor and put it under siege. My guess is, Russia really would love to capture a giant steel factory in tact. They know they can starve them out eventually. But who exactly is in there. Lots of rumors of foreign and NATO officers and troops hiding with Nazis. Good article here
http://johnhelmer.org/russian-reporting ... -azovstal/

From the Russian perspective, but it is logical, we always send in 'Advisors', and have done so since at least Vietnam, which we were active in as early as 1959. So what is being stated here is not much of a stretch.

[C-Mag]

I see nothing stopping Russia from making the map below a reality. It's really just up to Putin and if he is will to expend enough blood and treasure to do it, and how much new equipment flows into the Ukraine to make Russia hurt.

The Russian people are behind this. Western media portrays Putin as some sort of outlier but in Russia there is a contingent that is screaming about him not going far enough. He is a centrist in their world. This has always been way beyond just a guy. Hubris v Resolve is what we are witnessing. Which is which is still to be played out. I have my inklings and they aren't popular.

I do feel for Ukrainians except for the Nazis. The downplay from the West of how pervasive that ideology is in that culture is astounding. This all has me boggled like the WuFlu scare. Same people pushing, same scare tactics but it seems to have hit an additional group in their tickle spot to bring them on board and position them as the opposition.

Good Post, I agree

[StCapps]

because the Russians are not performing anywhere near well enough to take Ukraine

let alone hold it

Mariupol Schmariupol

the Russians have taken nothing of significance

and have paid a steep price for it

Orly? Based on what besides your opinion? Who said that their aim is to take all of Ukraine? Who would want to take Kiev? Whomever gets that is the ultimate loser. It would be akin to having to take on LA or San Fran in a lopped off California. Eastern Ukraine is now Russia forever. Odessa is the last puzzle piece to fall in place and control of the Black Sea is no small feat. Ukraine is looking to be landlocked and thus invaluable to NATO.

Russia's own soldiers have said as much

the plan was for Kiev to fall inside of a week

the Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators and sue for peace

if all they wanted was eastern Ukraine, they could have done that without the ridiculous invasion plan they executed at the start of the war

it could have been done without paying anywhere near the cost they've paid

the Russians can't hold the Black Sea, even if they take Odessa, that just increases the difficulty of defending the southern lines

the Ukrainians aren't going to accept being landlocked

if Kiev doesn't fall, they'll counter attack

the longer Russia leaves western Ukraine in tact

the more the calculus turns in Ukraine's favor

as they arm up with aid from the west

as Russia weakens themselves militarily

and if Russia takes the whole thing

that will be like swallowing a porcupine

no matter how the war goes at the tactical level from here on out

Russia loses

it's just a matter of how badly they lose

even if they "win", they lose

"winning" would be the worst of all world's for Russia

the occupation will drain the ever living fuck out of them

and tie up their whole military in the process


y'all keep tunnel visioning on the tactical

and ignoring the strategic

anything you think Russia is gaining out of this

is heavily outweighed by the cost to gain it

[SuburbanFarmer]

Not so. Europe has already agreed to pay for gas in rubles. Thats our biggest customer for dollars gone.

Strategic victory overall. Ukraine itself is a side plot now.