Abortion

[Martin Hash]

I tend to be a pragmatist.

Is the choice between abortion and no abortion
or
legal abortion and illegal abortion?

Because you will get a different answer.

Same argument could be made about murder.

[SuburbanFarmer]

My body, my choice.

Your liberty ends where my liberty begins.

The Oral Illusion of calling the child a "fetus" to remove liberty was intellectually dishonest at the time and is even more odious now.

My daughter just delivered a baby 11 weeks early, a little girl, fully functional. Babies can survive in incubators at 28 weeks. That is NOT a fetus.

Yes, pregnancy is uncomfortable but comfort doesn't supersede liberty.

There are far too many cases where abortion is a legitimate, even moral choice for some kind of blanket ban on the whole thing. This shouldn’t even involve government in the first place.

Picture the life of a kid brought into the world - not because his parents love/want him, but because the State forced his existence.

[Martin Hash]

My body, my choice.

Your liberty ends where my liberty begins.

The Oral Illusion of calling the child a "fetus" to remove liberty was intellectually dishonest at the time and is even more odious now.

My daughter just delivered a baby 11 weeks early, a little girl, fully functional. Babies can survive in incubators at 28 weeks. That is NOT a fetus.

Yes, pregnancy is uncomfortable but comfort doesn't supersede liberty.

There are far too many cases where abortion is a legitimate, even moral choice for some kind of blanket ban on the whole thing. This shouldn’t even involve government in the first place.

Picture the life of a kid brought into the world - not because his parents love/want him, but because the State forced his existence.

Dude, I've represented those kinds of kids in family court: children are amazingly resilient, and contrary to the old perception of unwanted children, the exact opposite is true: there is a terrible shortage of adoptable babies.

I'd gladly represent a "fetus" in court and would win. All the state has to do is change the definition and lawyers will stop the abortionists: it doesn't even have to be illegal.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Your liberty ends where my liberty begins.

The Oral Illusion of calling the child a "fetus" to remove liberty was intellectually dishonest at the time and is even more odious now.

My daughter just delivered a baby 11 weeks early, a little girl, fully functional. Babies can survive in incubators at 28 weeks. That is NOT a fetus.

Yes, pregnancy is uncomfortable but comfort doesn't supersede liberty.

There are far too many cases where abortion is a legitimate, even moral choice for some kind of blanket ban on the whole thing. This shouldn’t even involve government in the first place.

Picture the life of a kid brought into the world - not because his parents love/want him, but because the State forced his existence.

Dude, I've represented those kinds of kids in family court: children are amazingly resilient, and contrary to the old perception of unwanted children, the exact opposite is true: there is a terrible shortage of adoptable babies.

I'd gladly represent a "fetus" in court and would win. All the state has to do is change the definition and lawyers will stop the abortionists: it doesn't even have to be illegal.

The best info I’ve heard on this is the crime wave of the 80s sharply cutting off at 20 years after Roe v Wade.
Anything else is probably anecdotal.

But I don’t see how you’d reconcile the ideals of liberty with forcing a woman to carry an unwanted child to term, then hand it over to the state or worse.

[Martin Hash]

There's also the father's rights.

Abortion is an FMS issue and only makes sense in a gynocentric society. Women aren't reasonable when it comes to liberty b/c they are at a disadvantage.

[Martin Hash]

The states that make abortion illegal should at least remove RU486 from the prescription schedule.

[SuburbanFarmer]

There's also the father's rights.

Abortion is an FMS issue and only makes sense in a gynocentric society. Women aren't reasonable when it comes to liberty b/c they are at a disadvantage.

Definitely agree there. But I don’t think government has a role to play here.

This is fallout from the dissolution of marriage into a state-enforced contract. Human bonding legalized and commoditized.

In a society of individuals, the male reproductive instinct is a liability.

[Martin Hash]

When a woman takes RU486, she's killing the baby, not a doctor: she can no longer transfer the responsibility to someone else.

[SuburbanFarmer]

When a woman takes RU486, she's killing the baby, not a doctor: she can no longer transfer the responsibility to someone else.

How is that different? The doctor procedure requires the consent of the physician. The pill requires the consent of whoever sells it to her. Same difference.

The mother is responsible regardless, by initiating the transaction. She wasn’t forced.

[Martin Hash]

When a woman takes RU486, she's killing the baby, not a doctor: she can no longer transfer the responsibility to someone else.

How is that different? The doctor procedure requires the consent of the physician. The pill requires the consent of whoever sells it to her. Same difference.

The mother is responsible regardless, by initiating the transaction. She wasn’t forced.

That is very pedantic but the reality is very emotional.