Current US Military

[DrYouth]

both sides immediately abandoned MAD and started Reductive Escalation to counterforce

I'm still not really getting this Reductive Escalation to counterforce idea...

How does that work?

[SuburbanFarmer]

both sides immediately abandoned MAD and started Reductive Escalation to counterforce

I'm still not really getting this Reductive Escalation to counterforce idea...

How does that work?

Doesn’t seem to make sense on the face of it, other than perhaps both sides accepting that MAD isn’t viable. So to remain threatening, they make the use of nukes more likely.

[DrYouth]

Doesn’t seem to make sense on the face of it, other than perhaps both sides accepting that MAD isn’t viable. So to remain threatening, they make the use of nukes more likely.

Not viable...

How is that exactly?

[Smitty-48]

both sides immediately abandoned MAD and started Reductive Escalation to counterforce

I'm still not really getting this Reductive Escalation to counterforce idea...

How does that work?

the escalation is towards the use of nuclear weapons

they got so big, they became unusable, strategic stalemate

reducing them back down to tactical weapons escalates towards use,

tactical weapons are not for deterrence, tactical means they are made to use, to fight with

MAD means you hold each others cities hostage with ICBM's over the pole

MAD means you get rid of all tactical nuclear weapons, you just have strategic weapons

if you build tactical nuclear weapons, that is for one thing only, fighting a tactical nuclear war

tactical means fight, tactical nuclear weapons have a logic of their own, and it is not MAD

MAD is actually aspirational, it's only effective if it is stable and neither side is trying to fight & win

so long as you have tactical nuclear weapons at all, you have not actually reached stable MAD

Russia could nuke Romania, that doesn't assure Russia's destruction, ergo no MAD is in effect

Mutually Assured Destruction means what it says, Assured is the operating word, tactical use exists outside that

[SuburbanFarmer]

... in spite of the fact that no nation could survive the rest of the globe coming after them the next week.

Win the battle, lose the nation.

[Smitty-48]

the public's view of things is outdated, they invoke a MAD from long ago

MAD is not even US policy anymore and hasn't been for decades now

MAD was underpinned by Eisenhower's policy of Massive Retaliation

that went away at the end of the Cold War when Fukuyama declared the End of History

American policy since has been another McNamara invention, called Flexible Response

[Smitty-48]

it's gone beyond policy now

in order to rationalize his aggressive move into Poland & Romania with INF backed by BMD

Obama directed the Pentagon to radically update the war plans

under the new Obama Doctrine, America is in fact preparing to fight the Russians in Central Europe

it's not just policy, they have operationalized that policy into plans, and they have deployed the weapons

[SuburbanFarmer]

Makes ya wonder why Europe is still playing along with NATO.

[Smitty-48]

Makes ya wonder why Europe is still playing along with NATO.

NATO is an American deterrence umbrella

they are playing along with being protected by American nuclear weapons

the NATO countries are not protected by American MAD

so America moving to a theater counterforce model is protecting Europeans at America's expense

that's why they choose F-35 over European options

it's an American tactical nuclear weapon first and foremost,

able to deliver two NATO B61-12 preemptively by stealth

those bombs being stored in the Netherlands, Italy & Turkey to be used by NATO allied countries

those are tactical nuclear bombs, they are for use in a war against Russia in Europe

[Smitty-48]

again, Nuclear Deterrence is not a monolith

not all Nuclear Deterrence is just MAD, end of story

use of tactical nuclear weapons at theater level to defeat the adversary without invoking MAD, is also deterrence

use doesn't even mean you have to drop those weapons, their mere presence shapes the battle space alone