The Era of Biden

[Zlaxer]

The “Plan”, as far as I can see it at the moment, is to inflate the debt away in a “controlled” manner to avoid hyper inflation...but at the end of the day, the dollar will be worthless...Social security will be paid out so politicians can save face and most of population wont riot bc they won’t have a clue what’s happening, but you wont be able to afford anything....elites will then prop up a new currency...but by then, the masses will be poor and broken...so they will own nothing and be happy to get UBI in the new currency - it will prob be just enough purchasing power to pay rent on a 1-2 bedroom apartment and groceries.

The elites will then slowly add a series of conditions to UBI, e.g., nor more than 1 kid..... you get the idea.

The question is whether there is any way for the above average Joe to avoid this trap?


I think I read there’s 100T in unfunded Fed liabilities, how many more Stimulus packages will it take to inflate that away? That kind of gives us a timeline of the collapse...

I think we MHFers should try to come up with a reasonable timeline for predicting the inflation timeline for dealing with the debt - there has to be a model somewhere on the internets.

[The Conservative]

Here is the general problem that no one is confronting. We already have a weak version of UBI, it's welfare and SS, as well as Unemployment... all three are unstainable in their current situation, only because there is not a set standard on the definition of when and how to obtain. Even SS has loopholes.

What needs to be done is to either unify, or destroy both systems (which have obviously failed) and in turn replace it with a semi-UBI that are used in replacement. There will not be a question of how much a person needs, etc.. UBI will pay up to $2,000 a month per adult (starts at $750) and $500 a month per child up to three. After that, the rest is on you.

Those on this "UBI" will not get extra money for paying bills, etc... WIC and things like that will still be a thing for up to the time the child is considered an adult. Once they reach adult age, the UBI for them would be gone.

Qualifications to be on this system (Emergency job loss. Fired, can not quit)

Physically or mental damage either due to work, or born with situations. Independent of age $2000/mo will be given. For support for anyone if this situation will require more resources. (As an example a broken arm or leg will not put this into effect, unless it was work related, and it keeps the person from doing the job they were once doing)

Retirement.

Now I hear people saying (Like Martin) What would keep companies from paying less than a living wage (or just forcing people to quit) There are already laws on the books to keep this from happening. Either update them, or fix them to work.

The other part is that if people are free to take a job or say no... companies will either find people desperate enough, or realize that their requirements vs pay are not enough to obtain talent they will either chew through people and get a bad reputation, or learn that they need to work harder to get better talent.

Lets be honest, if we truly wanted to resolve this issue, and make a system that truly supported people, and allowed them to get off the ground floor, we would revamp the systems we have in place to make that possible.

Honestly, all three systems needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up with a system that is not only modernized, but also is efficient enough to run. Which at this time all three systems are far from being.

[PartyOf5]

Just curious, UBI... what if we we do a UBI for those who NEED it, and not based off of race, gender, or age. If they are of working age and refuse to, they don't get it, but if they need it, even though they work full time (getting paid under a living wage) this would take into effect?

The "U" in UBI stands for "Universal".

As soon as someone doesn't get it, it ceases to be UBI.
At that point it's just another centralized wealth redistribution scheme selecting winner and losers.

Then we need to redefine what it needs to be...

Why? Is the MHF plan going to be submitted to Congress?

All this discussion of the ideal UBI is as useful as discussing if Hulk could beat Superman in a fight.

[The Conservative]

The "U" in UBI stands for "Universal".

As soon as someone doesn't get it, it ceases to be UBI.
At that point it's just another centralized wealth redistribution scheme selecting winner and losers.

Then we need to redefine what it needs to be...

Why? Is the MHF plan going to be submitted to Congress?

All this discussion of the ideal UBI is as useful as discussing if Hulk could beat Superman in a fight.

Depends on the version of Hulk... lol. Worldbreaker, possibly... any other, probably not. He's technically like Doomsday, but not.

And if we can come up with something smart and functional, then perhaps we should work together to make a bill or a proposal to congress...Martin wants to be famous, why not work on a Bill for congress to look at?

[Martin Hash]

The “Plan”, as far as I can see it at the moment, is to inflate the debt away in a “controlled” manner to avoid hyper inflation...but at the end of the day, the dollar will be worthless...Social security will be paid out so politicians can save face and most of population wont riot bc they won’t have a clue what’s happening, but you wont be able to afford anything....elites will then prop up a new currency...but by then, the masses will be poor and broken...so they will own nothing and be happy to get UBI in the new currency - it will prob be just enough purchasing power to pay rent on a 1-2 bedroom apartment and groceries.

The elites will then slowly add a series of conditions to UBI, e.g., nor more than 1 kid..... you get the idea.

The question is whether there is any way for the above average Joe to avoid this trap?


I think I read there’s 100T in unfunded Fed liabilities, how many more Stimulus packages will it take to inflate that away? That kind of gives us a timeline of the collapse...

I think we MHFers should try to come up with a reasonable timeline for predicting the inflation timeline for dealing with the debt - there has to be a model somewhere on the internets.

In a democracy, there's really nothing a libertyist can do at this point; if you did predict the future and manage to squirrel something away, your neighbors would turn you in, and government would take your stash.

It takes decades for Collectivism to fail and even then the people still want it, it's just that Marxists can't bake enough bread.

[DBTrek]

All of these welfare plans are hyper-focused on meeting demand without ever considering or explaining where the supply will come from.

Again, if governments could simply print $2000 a month for everyone and mail it to them, and still have a functioning economy, then everyone would do it. Poverty would be eradicated. All across the globe every nation would fire up the money printer and print their citizens out of poverty.

[The Conservative]

All of these welfare plans are hyper-focused on meeting demand without ever considering or explaining where the supply will come from.

Again, if governments could simply print $2000 a month for everyone and mail it to them, and still have a functioning economy, then everyone would do it. Poverty would be eradicated. All across the globe every nation would fire up the money printer and print their citizens out of poverty.

That would only work if we clean up our financial situation. Remove the welfare states, remove the abuses, etc... you either have $2000/month or you have the system we have in place. You will tank the economy too fast (like the 70's) if we keep everything in place and don't clean up the house before doing this.

[DBTrek]

Your plan is no different than every other failed plan we've had.
They all go like this:

1. Take money from the producers, give it to the government.
2. The government claims the money will subsidize the poor. Except ... they never quite seem to pull it off.
3. The government creates more bureaucracy (jobs for itself), which requires more taxes, expands its own scope of power, and now will say they're ready to help the poor.
4. The poor still need more, so the government goes back to the producers and the cycle repeats ad infinitum.

Name me the government plan that actually solved the problem it was created to address, rather than sprawling into a giant, expensive, and largely useless bureaucracy.

Any plan.
Let's hear it.

[DBTrek]

To Martin's point ... I recently refinanced my house at the extremely low rates we saw over the summer, my mortgage is now $1400 a month. I also pay, with my wife, north of $20k in taxes every year.

Guess what happens if you send me $2000 a month, and her $2000 a month.
I quit. Fuckit, my mortgage is covered. My wife quits, we have $2600 a month between us after paying the mortgage to do whatever we want. If we need more money maybe we get some part time gigs or freelance work.
Meanwhile, your tax pool (which supposedly is funding all this) shrinks by $20k, and your national debt climbs $4k a month.

Now do that across a couple hundred million citizens.

What now?

[The Conservative]

To Martin's point ... I recently refinanced my house at the extremely low rates we saw over the summer, my mortgage is now $1400 a month. I also pay, with my wife, north of $20k in taxes every year.

Guess what happens if you send me $2000 a month, and her $2000 a month.
I quit. Fuckit, my mortgage is covered. My wife quits, we have $2600 a month between us after paying the mortgage to do whatever we want. If we need more money maybe we get some part time gigs or freelance work.
Meanwhile, your tax pool (which supposedly is funding all this) shrinks by $20k, and your national debt climbs $4k a month.

Now do that across a couple hundred million citizens.

What now?

You quit, you won't get the money. I already put that as a clause in there. It's obvious you have a hard time comprehending. I specifically said Fired, not quit... the only reason you would get the money is if you can prove your were forced out through mistreatment, etc... but in that case you would have a legal case against the company anyway.