Coronavirus thread

[DBTrek]

That's a bullshit argument.

It's a bullshit argument that millions of jobs are gone, May rent/mortgage is due, and the people with not a financial care in the world are here casting stones?

I don't think so.
I think all of that has been heavily supported.

It's a bullshit argument that the pandemic should be extended and more people have to get infected in order to protect the profits of landlords and mortgage companies.

Ahhh, that’s right. Because the mass protests of desperate workers are led by mortgage companies and landlords worried about their next meal.

Great take, Monte.

Right up there with those who have financially secured their lifestyles in perpetuity with public funds berating the “mammon worshippers”.

[Speaker to Animals]

so data from mass.gov isn't good enough for you?

I am asking you what you think that data shows to support your contention that the virus is a hoax or no worse than the flu, or whatever it is you think you are proving by posting links to state statistics.

You are fucking obtuse. It shows that it has affected less than 1% of the entire population of Mass... the 3rd most infected state in the union. We have shut down mass for the 1%... there is a joke there somewhere... but I swear I'm talking to a bigger one now.

There are several problems with the argument you just made.

(1) We don't know how many people were actually infected because the Trump administration has blocked community testing. To get tested, you need to present with severe symptoms and the CDC has to agree to test you. We know most people who get the disease have symptoms too mild for the CDC to agree to test for covid. Thus the data on exactly how many people were infected is not conclusive, though we can make some educated guesses about ranges based on trends of people who do show up with severe symptoms combined with data from developed nations that actually have competent governments and have tested widely.

(2) If only 1% of Massachusetts was infected, then your data supports continuing lock downs, not the other way around. As of this post, Mass has seen 4,212 cases of recorded covid deaths. If you only infected 1% of your population, and reaching herd immunity requires a 70% infection, then you can expect just shy of 300,000 fatalities in Massachusetts alone. That's 4% of your population.

Which.. again.. assumes herd immunity is possible.. and that's not a given since no other coronavirus that infects humans has that attribute. The human coronaviruses that cause some of common colds confers no immunity whatsoever. This is why you should clean sheets and clean your home after having a cold. If your cold was caused by one of the human coronaviruses, you can actually get reinfected from the shit in your home you infected the first time.

(3) You were not shut down for the 1% that was infected, but all the people who were not yet infected. If everybody gets sick at once, your fatality rate would be closer to 15-18% mortality rate that happens when people have no access to ICU resources. As long as we can keep the infection rate growth lower than the ICU capacity, then we can maintain this 5% mortality rate. If we blast through our ICU surge capacity, then you are looking at somewhere just under 18% mortality. So.. if your population is 6.8 million, and assuming herd immunity is possible (I really doubt it, but just for the sake argument), then you are looking at something closer to 700k fatalities instead of 300k fatalities and att least twice that number of permanently disabled. Your economy would be destroyed as a result.

(4) We do not yet know if immunity lasts. We do not yet have community testing (which is the fault of the Trump administration). We do not yet have a working drug treatment to limit the deaths and permanent disabilities that would result. There exists nothing in place to warrant reopening the economy. Basic things need to be established here: widespread community testing is the primary thing. You need to know who gets sick before even they know it and isolate them immediately to stop the spread of the disease. We do not have that.

[The Conservative]

You are a moron. Stick with airplane engines.

The only way you are going to get heard immunization is by opening-up the businesses and let life go on. Not to restrict it.

And we have proof of what that looks like outside of this country or do you ignore that?

As for if immunity lasts, well no fucking shit it won't last. No flu immunization lasts from one season to another. It mutates.

We do the same thing we do every year, warn the elderly and go on with our lives.

[SuburbanFarmer]

i'm learning a lesson right now watching people on funemployment make more money than me lol

This. I get exactly the same wage whether I'm working or not.

Fuck, I need to get myself fired.

[Speaker to Animals]

You are a moron. Stick with airplane engines.

The only way you are going to get heard immunization is by opening-up the businesses and let life go on. Not to restrict it.

And we have proof of what that looks like outside of this country or do you ignore that?

As for if immunity lasts, well no fucking shit it won't last. No flu immunization lasts from one season to another. It mutates.

We do the same thing we do every year, warn the elderly and go on with our lives.

So that's your argument..

Mass only has 1% infected (a claim you cannot really support because the Trump administration has blocked community testing for months now), with 4,212 fatalities thus far, therefore we need to abandon all isolation measures. Genius.

Anybody who dares to point out some basic mathematical facts to you gets assaulted with this nonsense above. Same as DB, but less graceful. Okay.

I am pretty sure people with an IQ over 100 and even a modest government school education can multiply 4,212 by 70 and see the problem here..

[The Conservative]

You are a moron. Stick with airplane engines.

The only way you are going to get heard immunization is by opening-up the businesses and let life go on. Not to restrict it.

And we have proof of what that looks like outside of this country or do you ignore that?

As for if immunity lasts, well no fucking shit it won't last. No flu immunization lasts from one season to another. It mutates.

We do the same thing we do every year, warn the elderly and go on with our lives.

So that's your argument..

Mass only has 1% infected (a claim you cannot really support because the Trump administration has blocked community testing for months now), with 4,212 fatalities thus far, therefore we need to abandon all isolation measures. Genius.

Anybody who dares to point out some basic mathematical facts to you gets assaulted with this nonsense above. Same as DB, but less graceful. Okay.

I am pretty sure people with an IQ over 100 and even a modest government school education can multiply 4,212 by 70 and see the problem here..

And any idiot can see what countries ignored quarantine had the same spread of the virus to those countries that did quarantine.

Your argument falls flat on its face.

[Speaker to Animals]

You are a moron. Stick with airplane engines.

The only way you are going to get heard immunization is by opening-up the businesses and let life go on. Not to restrict it.

And we have proof of what that looks like outside of this country or do you ignore that?

As for if immunity lasts, well no fucking shit it won't last. No flu immunization lasts from one season to another. It mutates.

We do the same thing we do every year, warn the elderly and go on with our lives.

So that's your argument..

Mass only has 1% infected (a claim you cannot really support because the Trump administration has blocked community testing for months now), with 4,212 fatalities thus far, therefore we need to abandon all isolation measures. Genius.

Anybody who dares to point out some basic mathematical facts to you gets assaulted with this nonsense above. Same as DB, but less graceful. Okay.

I am pretty sure people with an IQ over 100 and even a modest government school education can multiply 4,212 by 70 and see the problem here..

And any idiot can see what countries ignored quarantine had the same spread of the virus to those countries that did quarantine.

Your argument falls flat on its face.

Uh... no. I think you need to go to the data and try to support that contention. Because the data I see does not support it at all. South Korea, for instance, took this very seriously right away. Widespread community testing was implemented. Universal masks. Their epidemic curve looks very different. Same as Singapore.

Germany was somewhere in between there. Widespread testing but not widespread mask use as far as I know. They still have a much more muted exponential growth curve.

The United States did absolutely FUCK ALL for several months and we have a third of all known covid cases on planet Earth and we are only a few percentage points of the total population. This is a failure no matter how you cut it and doubling down on that failure because you don't understand math I would not guess should end well.

[The Conservative]

So that's your argument..

Mass only has 1% infected (a claim you cannot really support because the Trump administration has blocked community testing for months now), with 4,212 fatalities thus far, therefore we need to abandon all isolation measures. Genius.

Anybody who dares to point out some basic mathematical facts to you gets assaulted with this nonsense above. Same as DB, but less graceful. Okay.

I am pretty sure people with an IQ over 100 and even a modest government school education can multiply 4,212 by 70 and see the problem here..

And any idiot can see what countries ignored quarantine had the same spread of the virus to those countries that did quarantine.

Your argument falls flat on its face.

Uh... no. I think you need to go to the data and try to support that contention. Because the data I see does not support it at all. South Korea, for instance, took this very seriously right away. Widespread community testing was implemented. Universal masks. Their epidemic curve looks very different. Same as Singapore.

Germany was somewhere in between there. Widespread testing but not widespread mask use as far as I know. They still have a much more muted exponential growth curve.

The United States did absolutely FUCK ALL for several months and we have a third of all known covid cases on planet Earth and we are only a few percentage points of the total population. This is a failure no matter how you cut it and doubling down on that failure because you don't understand math I would not guess should end well.

Wow, do you actually hear yourself?

[Speaker to Animals]

And any idiot can see what countries ignored quarantine had the same spread of the virus to those countries that did quarantine.

Your argument falls flat on its face.

Uh... no. I think you need to go to the data and try to support that contention. Because the data I see does not support it at all. South Korea, for instance, took this very seriously right away. Widespread community testing was implemented. Universal masks. Their epidemic curve looks very different. Same as Singapore.

Germany was somewhere in between there. Widespread testing but not widespread mask use as far as I know. They still have a much more muted exponential growth curve.

The United States did absolutely FUCK ALL for several months and we have a third of all known covid cases on planet Earth and we are only a few percentage points of the total population. This is a failure no matter how you cut it and doubling down on that failure because you don't understand math I would not guess should end well.

Wow, do you actually hear yourself?

Yes, I am wondering when your "facts" are going to be presented here. You harmed your own argument by claiming only 1% of your state's population was infected. If only 1% were infected, and you have over 4k fatalities and probably twice as many permanently disabled, then undoing the social isolation measures is going to crash your entire God damned economy. You are looking at 15%-18% fatality rates when ICUs are overrun. You are facing at least two to three times as many disabled adults in the aftermath who do survive. About 17% of your economy is healthcare and you will have utterly bankrupted and destroyed your healthcare sector.

I can keep breaking this down for you but I don't get the impression you are actually interested in facts.

In your case, I am not being mean here, but you just are not very intelligent at all. But these other posters are working off ideology, not facts or mathematics at all. This entire pandemic is a math problem. Your market ideologies are not going to solve it.

And I will say this.. I very much doubt even 1% of your state's population was infected. It's actually worse than I just laid out. But just giving you your 1% claim for the sake of argument still ends in you losing this discussion. You can always take that back. But I think you are too proud and too slow to figure out that you should.

[Zlaxer]

@StA - you’re assuming a massive number of people don’t already have it - NY and CA studies showed roughly 30-40% of population was/is infected - and those were done weeks ago. Math shows PRC virus not that deadly unless you‘re old or have major health issues.

I can tell you this - more people will die from missed cancer screens than covid 19.