Brexit

[StCapps]

Thereby proving that Parliament is supreme and sovereignty was never in doubt.
To throw away the benefits of membership to return to sovereignty we never lost is the worst argument that the leavers came up with.

There are no benefits of membership that can't be had without membership. You can have your own currency without membership, you don't need to veto policies that don't effect you without membership, you don't have to be part of Schengen without membership.

Pretending that leaving the EU would result in "benefits being taken away" is the worst argument the remoaners came up with. It's a false dichotomy because you can negotiate a deal to keep all the benefits without membership, best of both worlds. By pretending it was all or nothing, that was the only way to make staying in the EU look good by comparison, but the only people the remoaners were fooling were themselves.

How about frictionless trade with the world's largest free trade zone?
How about free movement, rights of residence and the ability to work in that zone?
How about reciprocal healthcare arrangements which mean that if I fall ill in any of the other member states I will receive full care free of charge to me?
Somehow it is a great deal to lose the benefits that come with the EU in order to ''take back control'' which we never lost in the first place?

You can do all of that without EU membership, if y'all want to, no need to be part of the EU to make such deals. You can ditch the negatives and keep the positives by leaving, by staying you have to keep the negatives, clearly a worse deal.

[Hastur]

Incredible how easy it is to get people to lust after being ruled by an unelected byzantine foreign bureaucracy.

[StCapps]

Incredible how easy it is to get people to lust after being ruled by an unelected byzantine foreign bureaucracy.

Just pretend all other alternatives will result in the sky falling, and pretend that no clearly better alternatives exist, that's the key to selling such a shitty plan.

[Montegriffo]

There are no benefits of membership that can't be had without membership. You can have your own currency without membership, you don't need to veto policies that don't effect you without membership, you don't have to be part of Schengen without membership.

Pretending that leaving the EU would result in "benefits being taken away" is the worst argument the remoaners came up with. It's a false dichotomy because you can negotiate a deal to keep all the benefits without membership, best of both worlds. By pretending it was all or nothing, that was the only way to make staying in the EU look good by comparison, but the only people the remoaners were fooling were themselves.

How about frictionless trade with the world's largest free trade zone?
How about free movement, rights of residence and the ability to work in that zone?
How about reciprocal healthcare arrangements which mean that if I fall ill in any of the other member states I will receive full care free of charge to me?
Somehow it is a great deal to lose the benefits that come with the EU in order to ''take back control'' which we never lost in the first place?

You can do all of that without EU membership.

No, you can't. If you could there would be no EU in the first place and America and China wouldn't resent Europe so much.
Without membership of such a large trade block the UK's bargaining position is much weaker and now it has to negotiate new trade deals with China and the US. Not to mention the new trade deals it has to agree with the EU.

[StCapps]

How about frictionless trade with the world's largest free trade zone?
How about free movement, rights of residence and the ability to work in that zone?
How about reciprocal healthcare arrangements which mean that if I fall ill in any of the other member states I will receive full care free of charge to me?
Somehow it is a great deal to lose the benefits that come with the EU in order to ''take back control'' which we never lost in the first place?

You can do all of that without EU membership.

No, you can't. If you could there would be no EU in the first place and America and China wouldn't resent Europe so much.
Without membership of such a large trade block the UK's bargaining position is much weaker and now it has to negotiate new trade deals with China and the US. Not to mention the new trade deals it has to agree with the EU.

It's negotiation position is stronger, because they don't have include bullshit EU baggage in those trade deals with other nations, which cost them many concessions they would otherwise get if they weren't part of the EU. If free trade between Britain and the EU is clearly beneficial for both parties, then the EU or UK refusing to give such a deal to the other party would be shooting themselves in the foot for no good reason, just because of butthurt over Brexit. The EU and UK can negotiate a bilateral deal that does everything the EU does without the EU, bilaterally instead of multilaterally, the sky is not falling SIFCLF.

[Montegriffo]

Incredible how easy it is to get people to lust after being ruled by an unelected byzantine foreign bureaucracy.

Never heard of MEPs?
Elected representatives in the EU Parliament.
Unelected rulers is a busted meme.
The unelected part of the EU system is the Commission which has no power to create rules. All it can do is suggest policy which must pass through the elected EU parliament and then pass through the UK elected parliament before it becomes law.
It is rule by consent, the same as every other democratic system on the planet.

[StCapps]

If the EU wants to be knee-jerk protectionist against everyone not in the EU, that's reason enough to leave, because that baggage is holding the UK back in it's trade negotiations with everyone not in the EU.

[Montegriffo]

You can do all of that without EU membership.

No, you can't. If you could there would be no EU in the first place and America and China wouldn't resent Europe so much.
Without membership of such a large trade block the UK's bargaining position is much weaker and now it has to negotiate new trade deals with China and the US. Not to mention the new trade deals it has to agree with the EU.

It's negotiation position is stronger, because they don't have include bullshit EU baggage in those trade deals with other nations, which cost them many concessions they would otherwise get if they weren't part of the EU. If free trade between Britain and the EU is clearly beneficial for both parties, then the EU or UK refusing to give such a deal to the other party would be shooting themselves in the foot for no good reason, just because of butthurt over Brexit. The EU and UK can negotiate a bilateral deal that does everything the EU does without the EU, bilaterally instead of multilaterally, the sky is not falling SIFCLF.

Examples please, what bullshit baggage are you talking about? Shit like food standards which are high enough that you don't have to bleach your chickens to make them safe to eat?
Bullshit like not allowing dangerous growth hormones to be injected into livestock?
Crap like workers' rights and environmental regulations?
Name one such ''baggage'' that we should be happy to drop in order to be granted the privilege of being able to trade with the rest of the world.

What about investment from countries like Japan who create jobs in the UK in order to gain access to EU markets?
How about the damage being done to the UK banking industry now that London has lost its position as the financial capital of Europe?

[StCapps]

How about the damage being done to the UK banking industry now that London has lost its position as the financial capital of Europe?

That's not a thing. Being in the EU isn't as important as you think it is, it is not a prerequisite for being the financial capital of Europe.

[Montegriffo]

How about the damage being done to the UK banking industry now that London has lost its position as the financial capital of Europe?

That's not a thing. Being in the EU isn't as important as you think it is, it is not a prerequisite for being the financial capital of Europe.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 68231.html

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/jobs/br ... n-mckinley

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 16506.html

https://www.toptal.com/finance/market-r ... ial-sector

Jobs are fleeing from London to Dublin and Frankfurt.