Civil War Doomsday Clock

[BjornP]

Coding/database management is a trade.

Huh. I guess in America, you have apprentice, journeyman and master archivists?

[Montegriffo]

Im sick of the down play of trades and vocational training . This is part of the urban / rural divide. I wish I had a trade to either work on the side or just fix my own shit . Just never had the proclivity for it really . And my adopted father was a analytical / bookish dude as opposed to a mechanical - practical man . Both are cool and have a part to play but fuck if your poor it's way better to be able to fix everything yourself.

Step 1: Buy a pos Honda or Nissan with a manual transmission and join a car forum
Step 2: sink tons of money and hours into it to make it go fast
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: cry a lot

Now you have learned to fix cars

Or, buy a 1972 WV camper van and have it drop a valve on the way to see Tangerine Dream at the Ipswich Corn Exchange.
Picking up the broken bits of the crankcase from the road is your first lesson.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Coding/database management is a trade.

Huh. I guess in America, you have apprentice, journeyman and master archivists?

Not archivists. It’s much much more than that.
But yes, there are levels to the craft.

Do you determine a “trade” by the power of its guild system?

[Ph64]

Im sick of the down play of trades and vocational training . This is part of the urban / rural divide. I wish I had a trade to either work on the side or just fix my own shit . Just never had the proclivity for it really . And my adopted father was a analytical / bookish dude as opposed to a mechanical - practical man . Both are cool and have a part to play but fuck if your poor it's way better to be able to fix everything yourself.

Step 1: Buy a pos Honda or Nissan with a manual transmission and join a car forum
Step 2: sink tons of money and hours into it to make it go fast
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: cry a lot

Now you have learned to fix cars

Never cared about "going fast", or putting stupid shit like spoilers and non-functional hood scoops and extra lights on to make it "look fast/'cool'". It's a tool that gets me between points A&B, hopefully reliably.

One thing my dweeby PhD physicist father *did* raise me with though, by example, was to not be afraid to try and fix things myself, to ask for help if needed but *watch* what they did and learn from it, etc. So, no, I don't think I'd trust myself rebuilding a car engine, though I would gladly play "gopher" with someone who knew how to maybe learn something... But I have taken apart/rebuilt lawn mower engines (long ago, new rings, etc), and I can bleed brakes on my car, replace calipers, brake lines, pads, wheel bearings, starter/alternator, track down electrical problems, etc. Wouldn't do it as a living, but to save money on my own car repair definitely. I've also taught myself basic plumbing repair, cleaning my own (oil) furnace, and grew up with a tv repairman grandfather so I've repaired old crt monitors/tv's - though all the new surface mount stuff is rather beyond anything other than board swapping these days (I've played with surface mount soldering, but I'm not that skilled - though electronically I understand the circuit functionality). Oh yeah, and I bought a kiln and I've played around with melting/casting aluminum, and playing around with glass/plastics is on my list.

Most people are scared to try things, especially on expensive things, and would rather just pay someone to do things rather than "get their hands dirty". Whatever. To me, do something with your hands - start a garden, build your own doghouse or toolshed rather than buying or having one built for you. Even if you aren't comfortable fixing something yourself, try to understand how it actually works.

[MilSpecs]

Wrong. Tradesmen make bank.

Nothing near mid level corporate management or professional band.

And you want to encourage the majority of kids to pursue massive debts to get into jobs for which only a small fraction can hold, why exactly?

Then change the ridiculous current debt slavery system. More people can hold professional jobs if they have the ability to do so. There is actually a shortage of doctors and other professionals in some parts of the country. That said, trades aren’t being downplayed. As I said, we make more with advanced education. That’s life. I’m just as proud of the kid with a certificate as I am of the kid with a degree.

[Martin Hash]

I think it’s a testosterone thing; something to do with survival & competitiveness.

I do everything myself but I don’t enjoy it much after the first time because that’s where the challenge is.

p.s. There’s no shortage of doctors, just people who don’t want to live in Shitholes.

[clubgop]

Im sick of the down play of trades and vocational training . This is part of the urban / rural divide. I wish I had a trade to either work on the side or just fix my own shit . Just never had the proclivity for it really . And my adopted father was a analytical / bookish dude as opposed to a mechanical - practical man . Both are cool and have a part to play but fuck if your poor it's way better to be able to fix everything yourself.

Step 1: Buy a pos Honda or Nissan with a manual transmission and join a car forum
Step 2: sink tons of money and hours into it to make it go fast
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: cry a lot

Now you have learned to fix cars

Or, buy a 1972 WV camper van and have your catamite drop a deuce on the way to giving him a Tangerine Dream at the Ipswich Corn Hole Exchange.
Picking up the bits of shit while holding your crank, is your first lesson.

FFY

[clubgop]

Nothing near mid level corporate management or professional band.

And you want to encourage the majority of kids to pursue massive debts to get into jobs for which only a small fraction can hold, why exactly?

Then change the ridiculous current debt slavery system. More people can hold professional jobs if they have the ability to do so. There is actually a shortage of doctors and other professionals in some parts of the country. That said, trades aren’t being downplayed. As I said, we make more with advanced education. That’s life. I’m just as proud of the kid with a certificate as I am of the kid with a degree.

So a bunch of privileged kids can spend even less money for these degrees. I am sure a bunch of doctors and lawyers are going to build that green railroad you want.

[Speaker to Animals]

Coding/database management is a trade.

Huh. I guess in America, you have apprentice, journeyman and master archivists?

IT and IS are naturally trades. That we use college degrees as gatekeeping is ridiculous.

These things are not engineering. A person need only learn skills. Corporations already have to train people in-house now anyway because colleges are mostly garbage at the undergraduate level. There's no point in requiring college. Just hire people with some skills to get started, train them to do whatever you want them to do in house, and then carry on.

You don't need to minor in mathematics or understand theoretical computer science to administer a database.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Coding/database management is a trade.

Huh. I guess in America, you have apprentice, journeyman and master archivists?

IT and IS are naturally trades. That we use college degrees as gatekeeping is ridiculous.

These things are not engineering. A person need only learn skills. Corporations already have to train people in-house now anyway because colleges are mostly garbage at the undergraduate level. There's no point in requiring college. Just hire people with some skills to get started, train them to do whatever you want them to do in house, and then carry on.

You don't need to minor in mathematics or understand theoretical computer science to administer a database.

True points, but you need to know every inch of the language, and how the software operates. It’s no different than being a skilled mechanic, or ‘code’ developer. SQL is code, it’s just fourth-generation.

And no, I wouldn’t argue that it’s engineering. That’s a different skill set for a different task. Beautiful red herring ya got there.

However, there is certainly an element of that, and similar scales of complexity when say, designing a data warehouse and associated infrastructure for a corporation.

I couldn’t agree more that generic bachelors degrees have no bearing on your ability to code. However, there should be more of a push to offer IT ‘trade schools’.