The Green Leap Forward

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DBTrek
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Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by DBTrek » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:51 pm

I just want people to catch on to the mass transit scam.
If you don't live in a liberal city, you probably don't see it coming.
If you've lived in a liberal city, you know these things are massive scams, costing taxpayers billions, and taking decades to complete.
One example:
Criticism
Sound Transit 3 has been criticized by supporters and opponents for various elements of the plan. The editorial board of The (Liberal) Seattle Times criticized the plan in June as coming "too soon" and too costly, calling it a "blank check" to Sound Transit.[85] The high cost of the plan, at $54 billion in year-of-expenditure dollars, was compared unfavorably to similar programs in peer cities.[86] The plan has also been criticized for not promising to reduce congestion, with Sound Transit citing induced demand and touting light rail as an alternative rather than a solution.[87]

After the release of the draft plan in March 2016, including completion of light rail to Everett and Tacoma in 2041 at the earliest, politicians demanded shorter timelines that were eventually implemented.[88][89] The inclusion of $980 million to fund park and rides for stations was criticized by Seattle Met's Publicola,[90] but was later reduced to $661 million and mitigated with plans to introduce reasonable fees for parking to manage demand, with revenues allocated to non-motorized system access.[91][92]

Controversies
During the lead-up to the election, Sound Transit was criticized for adding misleading survey questions that were found by the state's public disclosure commission to be in violation of state laws, and later pulled.[93] After the publication of the final plan and planning of the ballot measure language on voter pamphlets, a write-in campaign succeeded in placing conservative activist Tim Eyman on the committee writing the "no" statement, which upset the opposition campaign; under the state's ballot measure laws, Sound Transit's board were required to choose authors for both sides, and primarily selected current and former elected officials for both teams.[94]

In August, The Seattle Times revealed that 173,000 email addresses belonging to ORCA card holders were improperly released by Sound Transit to the pro campaign Mass Transit Now, potentially in violation of two state laws regarding protected information and use of public resources in support of a political campaign.[95] The Washington State Attorney General's Office announced that it would not pursue legal action against Sound Transit for the incident, finding no evidence that the release was intentional.[96]
Lies, exorbitant costs, law-breaking, fraud, the same elements you see over and over and over when examining these Democrat "mass transit" projects in liberal cities.
Looks some up, the pattern is as predictable as a sunset.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

Ph64
Posts: 2434
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:34 pm

Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by Ph64 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 pm

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:19 am
It wouldn't suck like Amtrack because they'd own their own rails. Amtrack sucks because they borrow the rails from freight, and are always second in line to use those tracks to freight.

Actually riding in Amtrack is not that bad, but obviously not fast either.

It's possible to make train travel really fucking nice if we wanted to do that.

Commuter trains are fucking horrible because they are packed in with people. That's not really what happens on long distance trains.


My concern with high-speed rail is the safety. We are headed into a kind of dark age with diminished capabilities. Shit we could have done in the 1980s is not necessarily what we can do now, even if we have the technological know-how. A dark age is not really about the knowledge being ultimately lost, but that the social and economic structures are unable to support it.
Most of the old right of ways for passenger rail are long gone. Yes, Amtrack sucks partially because it shares the rails - regardless though, they lose money already, how much more of a losing proposition would high speed rail be? You'd need new land easements anyways (they could use that eminent domain I know everyone here loves :roll:) because high speed rail will have a far shallower turn radius than normal rail can. And of course, how do we power it with "zero carbon emissions"?? :roll: :lol:

The time to do high speed rail was in the 1970/80s, if not earlier, back when Japan and Europe were doing such things. Good luck getting it done today.

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DBTrek
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Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by DBTrek » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:55 pm

Ph64 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 pm
The time to do high speed rail was in the 1970/80s, if not earlier, back when Japan and Europe were doing such things. Good luck getting it done today.
It'll be easy getting it done.
Tell mush-heads that it's "green", and "for the poors", and will be funded entirely by "rich people".
Hold a vote.

That's how we do it in Seattle.
Then our car tabs go from $80 to $250 and everyone acts surprised.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

Ph64
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Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:34 pm

Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by Ph64 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:57 pm

DBTrek wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:17 pm
We're $21 trillion in debt, with a GDP of $19.3 trillion.
We've got more debt than we've got yearly productivity.
Democrats can't even scrape $5billion for a border wall together.

And here they are saying "Does this country not have ten times the resources? Why are you so easily taken in by "a tiny ass country with a fraction of our population does X so we clearly can't"? We can do anything we have the will to do. I place no limit on our ability to accomplish great things."

How do they even get up in the morning? You'd think that level of cognitive dissonance would lead to a rapid demise based on Darwinism alone. How do these people manage to operate while being simultaneously so disconnected from reality?

Can't possible waste $5 billion on securing our borders, but hey, let's build more rail infrastructure for hundreds or thousands of times that amount! We've got no money, and endless money, simultaneously!
Sums it up nicely. :clap: :clap:

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:00 pm

Ph64 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 pm
Speaker to Animals wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:19 am
It wouldn't suck like Amtrack because they'd own their own rails. Amtrack sucks because they borrow the rails from freight, and are always second in line to use those tracks to freight.

Actually riding in Amtrack is not that bad, but obviously not fast either.

It's possible to make train travel really fucking nice if we wanted to do that.

Commuter trains are fucking horrible because they are packed in with people. That's not really what happens on long distance trains.


My concern with high-speed rail is the safety. We are headed into a kind of dark age with diminished capabilities. Shit we could have done in the 1980s is not necessarily what we can do now, even if we have the technological know-how. A dark age is not really about the knowledge being ultimately lost, but that the social and economic structures are unable to support it.
Most of the old right of ways for passenger rail are long gone. Yes, Amtrack sucks partially because it shares the rails - regardless though, they lose money already, how much more of a losing proposition would high speed rail be? You'd need new land easements anyways (they could use that eminent domain I know everyone here loves :roll:) because high speed rail will have a far shallower turn radius than normal rail can. And of course, how do we power it with "zero carbon emissions"?? :roll: :lol:

The time to do high speed rail was in the 1970/80s, if not earlier, back when Japan and Europe were doing such things. Good luck getting it done today.
They think they can run high-speed rail engines on solar and wind power. I am not even joking. This is a dark age.

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C-Mag
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Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by C-Mag » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 pm

DBTrek wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:51 pm
I just want people to catch on to the mass transit scam.
If you don't live in a liberal city, you probably don't see it coming.
If you've lived in a liberal city, you know these things are massive scams, costing taxpayers billions, and taking decades to complete.
+ 1 Good Stuff
Remember the Big Dig in Boston :D
PLATA O PLOMO


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Don't fear authority, Fear Obedience

Ph64
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Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by Ph64 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:05 pm

MilSpecs wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:46 am
Ph64 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:05 am
MilSpecs wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:49 am
We consider everything but the most logical place to start: a real country-wide mass transit system. Besides the huge energy savings and destruction of unwanted foreign entanglements, we'd also have a better quality of life, much expanded job markets, lots of jobs during construction and afterwards for maintenance, more efficient movement of goods, a lower death and disability rate, and we'd even have a more cohesive society. Pretty much nothing else is as much of a win-win for the country as a whole.
We had that... 100 years ago, "envy of the world", all the major northern cities had grand architecture train stations, cities had trolley systems...

...and we gave it all up, the car companies pushed the "freedom" of everyone having their own vehicle(s), driving down the highway in style in a sleek finned automobile smoking your totally safe non cancerous cigarette with a picnic basket in the back seat... most of those grand train stations got torn down or abandoned...

And now all we gave left is some local bus lines, Greyhound, and Amtrak.

Thing is, your not gonna get people to accept $trillions in debt for "super-Amtrak" without a far better sales pitch than "it'll help the environment, but suck as bad as Amtrak and cost $trillions".
All true. We need a light rail system, clean, comfortable, and convenient. Small buses or trolleys could take people from their transit stops to their neighborhoods.
And according to the Green New Deal we can do it all just by printing tens of $trillions in new debt, all while getting rid of coal, oil, gas, and even nuclear power... because it's all going to run on rainbow colored unicorn farts. Oh wait, shit, they're like cow farts aren't they, we have to get rid of those so no unicorn fart power either.

Well... cheap affordable fusion power is only 20 years away... just like it was in 1960, and 1980, and 1990, and 2000... :roll:

And then we'll all join hands and sing Kumbaya in the wonderful multicultural garden of Eden... and let everyone else in too! :whistle:

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MilSpecs
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Location: Deep in the heart of Jersey

Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by MilSpecs » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:21 pm

PartyOf5 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:10 pm
MilSpecs wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:30 am
Not a mass transit system. Also inefficient, dangerous, spews pollutants, uncomfortable, and ugly. Are we incapable of achieving what Switzerland achieved?
Switzerland is about 1/3 the size of Illinois. There already exists a train route from Milwaukee to Chicago. Mission accomplished.
Mission barely started. A mass transit system means every town has a stop.
:royalty-queen:

Zlaxer
Posts: 5377
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:04 am

Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by Zlaxer » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:22 pm

C-Mag wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 pm
DBTrek wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:51 pm
I just want people to catch on to the mass transit scam.
If you don't live in a liberal city, you probably don't see it coming.
If you've lived in a liberal city, you know these things are massive scams, costing taxpayers billions, and taking decades to complete.
+ 1 Good Stuff
Remember the Big Dig in Boston :D
https://www.taxpayer.net/infrastructure ... er-budget/

Not to mention that it leaks (far more than expected), and the ceiling slates have come loose and killed people due to contractors skimping.....

Ph64
Posts: 2434
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:34 pm

Re: The Green Leap Forward

Post by Ph64 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:23 pm

Meanwhile, the democrat governor of solidly democratic (and solidly broke) California has decided to cancel their high speed rail... "too expensive, not worth it".

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02- ... il-project