Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Otern]

Dude, NATO is a paper tiger. Consider the continentals are on their own..

We'd defend UK mercilessly. Maybe even France because they still backed us up when we were attacked.

Why would we give a fuck about Germany, though, much less Scandinavia?

Bailing out of article 5, after everyone else in NATO followed you when you invoked it in Afghanistan would not be in your long term interests.

[Speaker to Animals]

Dude, NATO is a paper tiger. Consider the continentals are on their own..

We'd defend UK mercilessly. Maybe even France because they still backed us up when we were attacked.

Why would we give a fuck about Germany, though, much less Scandinavia?

Bailing out of article 5, after everyone else in NATO followed you when you invoked it in Afghanistan would not be in your long term interests.

Neither does paying for NATO and upholding this shit when literally nobody else is even paying their dues.

In any case, the only people that rolled into Afghanistan with us in force were the Anglo nations and France. Hell Poland sent about as many troops as Canada and they weren't even in NATO. Where does that make any sense?

You know who sent a fuck ton of troops? UK.

You know which European nation can't be fucked with or America is going to get ugly? UK.

[Otern]

First thing first; should more NATO members spend 2% of GDP on armed forces? Sure. I agree there. And Norway too fails here.

But using Norway as an example. Do you really think it's not in your interests to have Norway in NATO? Russia going full cold war and steaming down from the North is not the reality we're facing anymore. Russia couldn't even take Ukraine alone, and they almost lost against Georgia in 2008. There's nothing of value in Norway that Russia would want. The only thing they'd want from Norway, is Svalbard. And the reason they'd want Svalbard, is to secure their nuclear bastions for a second strike against the US.

Keeping Norway as an ally is way more in the interests of the US, than it is of Norway. We bought those frigates, not to secure our borders, but to be part of the AEGIS system. We bought those F-35s, not because they're crucial for Norwegian security, but because they're useful in NATO doctrine. Part of the reason why Norwegian armed forces are so backwards nowadays, is because they have to do whatever NATO tells them to do, and don't bother with national defense. More expensive adventures abroad, and no funding for the home guard.

Not saying Norway don't need the US, but we need you guys primarily for economical reasons, not for security. And you don't really need Norway for security either, but your military industrial complex need Norway, because we're the best geographical position for anti ballistic defense against Russia, and a good positions to launch attacks against Russia.

[Speaker to Animals]

Honestly, Russia is mainly Europe's problem. Not our problem. Just because our globalist politicians talk a big game about Russian conspiracy theories doesn't make those guys a realistic threat.

[heydaralon]

China is the threat, not Russia. We are fucking retards in this country worrying about Russia. China is the rising power, and a case could be made that they are more formidable now than Russia was during the Cold War. Russia's gdp is 1.5 trillion I believe. To put it in perspective, ours is nearly 20. China, on the other hand, has a GDP of 13 tril. They are getting more aggressive in their military actions, in their expansionism, and they are stealing our trade and military secrets. Obama sucked up to them in a pitiful way, and our intellectual and globalist class either views them with indifference or admiration. They are an evil fucking regime. The shit they do is heinous. Putin kills journalists, China imprisons them, then harvests their organs after death. Its tendrils run deep. I hate China passionately. The dragon is approaching the village. Ordinarily, I'd want to chase it, but I gave that shit up. Fuck China.

[Otern]

China is the threat, not Russia. We are fucking retards in this country worrying about Russia. China is the rising power, and a case could be made that they are more formidable now than Russia was during the Cold War. Russia's gdp is 1.5 trillion I believe. To put it in perspective, ours is nearly 20. China, on the other hand, has a GDP of 13 tril.

Yup. The amount of authoritarian control in China dwarfs whatever is in Russia too. There were huge demonstrations in Moscow in support of Ukraine when Russia started doing shit there. Would never happen in China. And there are actually different parties in Russia. Sure, not a perfect democracy, but at least they have some democracy.

Personally, I worry more about EU expansionism, than Russian expansionism. I don't have to follow Russian laws in Norway, but I do have to follow EU laws in Norway.

[heydaralon]

China is the threat, not Russia. We are fucking retards in this country worrying about Russia. China is the rising power, and a case could be made that they are more formidable now than Russia was during the Cold War. Russia's gdp is 1.5 trillion I believe. To put it in perspective, ours is nearly 20. China, on the other hand, has a GDP of 13 tril.

Yup. The amount of authoritarian control in China dwarfs whatever is in Russia too. There were huge demonstrations in Moscow in support of Ukraine when Russia started doing shit there. Would never happen in China. And there are actually different parties in Russia. Sure, not a perfect democracy, but at least they have some democracy.

Personally, I worry more about EU expansionism, than Russian expansionism. I don't have to follow Russian laws in Norway, but I do have to follow EU laws in Norway.

I'm sorry I accused you of being pro-EU. I got you all wrong I guess. I have never been to Europe, but from what I have read, the EU is basically everything I was taught to fear as a child. A faceless, largely unaccountable, incompetent centralized govt with contempt for the commoners. lol to be honest, it kind of reminds me of the situation we have in DC. What is your biggest gripe with the EU?

[Otern]

I'm sorry I accused you of being pro-EU. I got you all wrong I guess. I have never been to Europe, but from what I have read, the EU is basically everything I was taught to fear as a child. A faceless, largely unaccountable, incompetent centralized govt with contempt for the commoners. lol to be honest, it kind of reminds me of the situation we have in DC. What is your biggest gripe with the EU?

The worst thing about it, is the technocratic centralization. Kind of like China, but with a European twist, so it looks less tyrannical and authoritarian, but it keeps evolving in that direction. The arrogance is really common among federalists in Europe. They really do believe they know the best, for everyone, in every regard.

I wouldn't call them incompetent, but the entire concept of a federal, centralized Europe breeds incompetence. So even if we start out with competent people, they're only competent in their respective fields, while they have power over fields where they're incompetent. As in economists having way too much power over agricultural policy. Or security experts having too much say in law.

We're getting too many laws, while the laws in place aren't enforced, pretty much giving us anarcho-tyranny. At this point, I'd rather be annexed by Russia than the EU. At least the Russians are too decentralized to properly enforce tyranny.

[heydaralon]

I'm sorry I accused you of being pro-EU. I got you all wrong I guess. I have never been to Europe, but from what I have read, the EU is basically everything I was taught to fear as a child. A faceless, largely unaccountable, incompetent centralized govt with contempt for the commoners. lol to be honest, it kind of reminds me of the situation we have in DC. What is your biggest gripe with the EU?

The worst thing about it, is the technocratic centralization. Kind of like China, but with a European twist, so it looks less tyrannical and authoritarian, but it keeps evolving in that direction. The arrogance is really common among federalists in Europe. They really do believe they know the best, for everyone, in every regard.

I wouldn't call them incompetent, but the entire concept of a federal, centralized Europe breeds incompetence. So even if we start out with competent people, they're only competent in their respective fields, while they have power over fields where they're incompetent. As in economists having way too much power over agricultural policy. Or security experts having too much say in law.

We're getting too many laws, while the laws in place aren't enforced, pretty much giving us anarcho-tyranny. At this point, I'd rather be annexed by Russia than the EU. At least the Russians are too decentralized to properly enforce tyranny.

That is an incredible statement for a European to say! I don't have rose colored glasses about Russia. It is an extremely poor, corrupt, and repressive country, but I think many Americans (particularly the John Oliver watching ones) have a rose colored view of the EU.

Can you give an example of an EU policy that you feel is becoming tyrannical with time? Its no secret that I despise the way the EU handled the migrant flood, and I have a great deal of respect for the national leaders that stood up to it. I also am very skeptical of the longterm viability of the Euro. I think that was a very bad idea, and its consequences will only get worse. Economics is not a field that I would consider myself an expert in. Do you see the huge amount of youth unemployment in Europe as a consequence of EU austerity policies, or do you think that Spain, Portugal, and Greece would have these problems even if they weren't EU members?

[BjornP]

In any case, the only people that rolled into Afghanistan with us in force were the Anglo nations and France. Hell Poland sent about as many troops as Canada and they weren't even in NATO. Where does that make any sense?

You know who sent a fuck ton of troops? UK.

You know which European nation can't be fucked with or America is going to get ugly? UK.

Poland joined NATO in 1999. Given this oversight of yours, you might want to check which countries supported you in Afghanistan. And how and where they did.