Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[BjornP]

The point about earning more in the cities seems to back up the argument that we need to decrease our standard of living in order to get a grip on our overconsumption. I'm not against this as a solution so maybe we start with a polluter pays tax policy.

How would a government identify who is a polluter? Are we talking determining mileage of a citizen's car and calculating the polluter tax based on that? Or other factors as well? A beef tax? An air travel tax? On the customers or the airline company, or both?

And what happens to the tax money? What will it be spent on? Will it be invested in something that benefits the fight against more pollution?

(I don't expect you to make up a new green policy for the UK, but I am curious about what the extent of and what usefulness you imagine there would be with such a tax).

[C-Mag]

No one is addressing the completely destroyed eco systems of cities, and the pollution bloom that continues.

[Montegriffo]

The point about earning more in the cities seems to back up the argument that we need to decrease our standard of living in order to get a grip on our overconsumption. I'm not against this as a solution so maybe we start with a polluter pays tax policy.

How would a government identify who is a polluter? Are we talking determining mileage of a citizen's car and calculating the polluter tax based on that? Or other factors as well? A beef tax? An air travel tax? On the customers or the airline company, or both?

And what happens to the tax money? What will it be spent on? Will it be invested in something that benefits the fight against more pollution?

(I don't expect you to make up a new green policy for the UK, but I am curious about what the extent of and what usefulness you imagine there would be with such a tax).

Well I'd like to see a tax on everything which pollutes. Not just fuel. Plastics, paper, vodka, bread what ever. I guess it would take some sort of independent body to assess the environmental impact of each product from each manufacturer. That way companies would be encouraged to go green in order to compete with more environmentally responsible companies making the same products.
Spend the money on green energy or planting trees. I'm not so much interested in raising revenue as discouraging bad practices. Maybe use the money to subsidize the rural or poor population to keep people like Otern on board.
You might say that the rich will just keep consuming because they can afford it. Not if we bankrupt their badly polluting companies they won't.
Like I said in another thread, I'm totalitarian on green issues. I honestly believe that we will do nothing about it otherwise.

[Montegriffo]

No one is addressing the completely destroyed eco systems of cities, and the pollution bloom that continues.

Yes they have. Where are all those city dwellers going to be living if we had no cities?
Unless you think Bjorn's fertilizer idea is worth a try.

[BjornP]

No one is addressing the completely destroyed eco systems of cities, and the pollution bloom that continues.

Try typing in "reducing *** pollution" in Google, with *** being a city name.

[Speaker to Animals]

It is almost as if the urbanites who create most of the problems push for "solutions" that force the people who are less responsible to pay all the costs. Weird.

[DBTrek]

Well I'd like to see a tax on everything

We know.
You can abbreviate this point in the future by simply saying “I’m European”.

[Montegriffo]

Well I'd like to see a tax on everything

We know.
You can abbreviate this point in the future by simply saying “I’m European”.

In the same way you could abbreviate tax is theft to I'm an American.

[Otern]

I'm not sure your point about food miles is true. The major distribution hubs for food are in the cities so food often travels from the countryside into the city then back out again. Food imports also go via the distribution hubs.
The point about earning more in the cities seems to back up the argument that we need to decrease our standard of living in order to get a grip on our overconsumption. I'm not against this as a solution so maybe we start with a polluter pays tax policy.

Sure, but city folks are far more likely to eat "exotic" foods. That avocado and sushi traveled way further than meatballs and potatoes. Rural people are way more likely to consume products produced nearby.

Also, it's not like food is processed and distributed from a single city. At least here, we have some of the hubs in rural areas, some in urban areas, and everything gets shipped everywhere, so it's not that much better for the environment to be in a particular city. My favorite frozen pizza got produced a lot closer when i lived in the sticks than the city where I'm living now.

[Montegriffo]

I'm not sure your point about food miles is true. The major distribution hubs for food are in the cities so food often travels from the countryside into the city then back out again. Food imports also go via the distribution hubs.
The point about earning more in the cities seems to back up the argument that we need to decrease our standard of living in order to get a grip on our overconsumption. I'm not against this as a solution so maybe we start with a polluter pays tax policy.

Sure, but city folks are far more likely to eat "exotic" foods. That avocado and sushi traveled way further than meatballs and potatoes. Rural people are way more likely to consume products produced nearby.

Also, it's not like food is processed and distributed from a single city. At least here, we have some of the hubs in rural areas, some in urban areas, and everything gets shipped everywhere, so it's not that much better for the environment to be in a particular city. My favorite frozen pizza got produced a lot closer when i lived in the sticks than the city where I'm living now.

So tax food miles. The COOP supermarket near me wasn't selling local asparagus during the season it continued to sell it from Peru. That has to stop.