Women make less because men work longer hours, duhhh...

[MilSpecs]

The debate between Milspecs and Partyof5 is getting to the nitty gritty...
That's about how far apart we actually are.... in other words, not very if at all...

I’m thinking of it more as a conversation at this point. It’s funny, though, every once in a while something comes up in conversation that reminds me that there’s a cultural difference. Usually it’s age related, but sometimes not.

[MilSpecs]

I think the over correction was natural given the starting point.

I think the reversal is already in progress. I don't see any new support for silly, but dangerous, concepts like Yes Mean Yes.
(though those losing might screaming even louder as their support continues to reseed)

Equality of Agency.
Not equality of outcome.

I.E. A random Man makes more than a random Woman. That fact alone does not mean a government action needs to be taken.

I used to think that was the case, but I no longer do.

If you honestly sat back and imagined both sexes coming to the table -- honestly this time -- to work out a balance of roles that makes each of us happier and strengthens society, you'd pretty much end up with where we started.

I think the lie is that women had it oh so terrible prior to the 1960s. They really did not, and their plummeting happiness tells the tale.

I would not like to block women from careers like we once did -- if they want to do those things. But we should not forget that most women don't really want that lifestyle, hence the unhappiness in career women and the rising numbers of women who just said fuck it and became single mothers.

I wouldn't mind women volunteering for armed forces, but they have to meet the same standards as men. If they cannot, then they are not a fit for the military.

The issue arose with the difference between equality of outcomes and equality before the law/customs. Women are not our equals physically. This is obvious. Nor are there nearly as many highly-intelligent women as highly-intelligent men (the inverse is true as well, with far more truly stupid men than truly stupid women). Therefore, you should expect to see the military dominated by men. You should expect to see STEM fields dominated by men. Like, duh.

Once we adopted this attitude that men and women are equal in substance, everything got fucked up because we really are not equal in substance, and the different outcomes are a result of differences between men and women, including our preferences.

[MilSpecs]

If you honestly sat back and imagined both sexes coming to the table -- honestly this time -- to work out a balance of roles that makes each of us happier and strengthens society, you'd pretty much end up with where we started.

Like socialism for marriage?

[Speaker to Animals]

If you honestly sat back and imagined both sexes coming to the table -- honestly this time -- to work out a balance of roles that makes each of us happier and strengthens society, you'd pretty much end up with where we started.

Like socialism for marriage?

Like, traditional families when women were happiest.

I think the idea that women should be able to pursue careers and compete with men in male fields is fine, but we shouldn't be upset that only a few women succeed at that, and we should not constantly reinforce in women the idea that they would be miserable doing what would make them the happiest, and happiest doing what makes them miserable.

[MilSpecs]

If you honestly sat back and imagined both sexes coming to the table -- honestly this time -- to work out a balance of roles that makes each of us happier and strengthens society, you'd pretty much end up with where we started.

Like socialism for marriage?

Like, traditional families when women were happiest.

I think the idea that women should be able to pursue careers and compete with men in male fields is fine, but we shouldn't be upset that only a few women succeed at that, and we should not constantly reinforce in women the idea that they would be miserable doing what would make them the happiest, and happiest doing what makes them miserable.

You said we should come to the table, implying a group decision. Most people would react strongly to the suggestion that their marriages should be subjected to a group decision. They might tell you to MYOB and work on your own relationships.

[Speaker to Animals]

I said come to the table honestly, which is the opposite of your ridiculous post.

[jediuser598]

Women should be free to choose whatever path they want to take.

If they take a path that makes them unhappy, that's on them.

If they take a path that makes them happy, that's on them.

I don't think we as a culture should sit down and do anything in regards to their agency. This is America, you're free to choose misery.

[MilSpecs]

I said come to the table honestly, which is the opposite of your ridiculous post.

You are entirely missing the point. You don’t get a say in other people’s marriages. There is no group decision.

[Speaker to Animals]

I said come to the table honestly, which is the opposite of your ridiculous post.

You are entirely missing the point. You don’t get a say in other people’s marriages. There is no group decision.

No, you are missing the point entirely. I never said I wanted a say in other people's marriages. Stop behaving like Kathy Newman, for fuck sake.

[MilSpecs]

Then what are you talking about coming to the table and deciding roles like the Marriage Nazi?