Women make less because men work longer hours, duhhh...

[nmoore63]

You think that pisses you off, wait till hackers worldwide discover that you don’t update shit and are susceptible to every vulnerability exploited over the last dozen years.

I accept the risk of you using up all my toner.

[DrYouth]

The debate between Milspecs and Partyof5 is getting to the nitty gritty...
That's about how far apart we actually are.... in other words, not very if at all...

According to STA women have it way better and men way worse.... and of course the radical feminists have it the other way around...

Possibly trauma on both sides... I dunno... or something else is going on.... some identity thing.... some reason to stake a flag on your hill and shoot all comers.

[Speaker to Animals]

The interesting aspect of these statistics (to me anyway) is that people in general are more likely to cheat or exploit their partners when they feel financially dependent on them. Only 38% of married women earn more than their husbands. Other surveys show millennial women in particular are "ashamed" of earning more than their husbands. Even more fucked up: the men who are married to women that are the breadwinners are more likely to cheat on their wives, and they do even less domestic chores.

Our domestic situation right now is extremely fucked up, and I think feminists (and their blue-pilled cuck allies) do a great disservice to society by obfuscating the actual issues with bullshit.

There exists lots of evidence to suggest that a marriage faces tremendous problems when the woman out-earns the man. It's just evolutionary behavior for women to seek resources, which is why they are so willing to divorce men who lose their jobs. Does that reflect well on women? Well, no. It's pretty fucking ugly, to be honest, and I can understand why women like milspecs, who want women always to be seen as the innocent victims, would buck hard against data like that. But at the same time, data like the survey that showed men perform even less domestic chores when the women are the primary breadwinners doesn't reflect well upon men either. Yet we also know that the more evenly you divide the household chores, the more likely women are to divorce their partners.


The actual facts are clear: women prefer men who earn more than them, and they prefer stricter gender roles in which women do less outside work and more domestic work. Despite what these feminists proclaim on the Internet, the data is clear that they are FAR more likely to bail on a marriage if the husband loses his job, makes less than them, or is stupid enough to try to be equal about domestic chores.

So you have to ask yourself, why does there exist this enormous gap between what women claim they want and what they are actually doing? I would suggest to you all that most women have absolutely no idea what they really want. What they say they want is not what they think they want, and what they think they want is not really what really drives their decisions either.

Conversely, men tend to resent gender equality. We are more likely to cheat on wives when we are financially dependent upon them, and we are far less likely to share in household chores when they earn more than us, piling on the workload for wives who out-earn husbands.

Maybe there is something to be said about traditionalism? Because, traditionally, there was an easy answer for this. Women stayed at home to take care of the children and do the domestic chores while men went out into the workforce to bring home the income. There were no rewards for divorce and, to even get a divorce, a person had to prove cause in court.

Furthermore, as women attempt to become more like men, it seems like they demand ever more double standards because they are demonstrably less happy each year. Seriously. Women have been growing increasingly unhappy since the 1960s. This trend has not paused. It's a steady downward trend in happiness. I would suggest to you all that this stems from women not really wanting what they think they want. They pursue things they are told will make them happy by a corrupt culture but, really, most would be happier in a 1950s arrangement.

What exactly are we supposed to do if most women are miserable in the workforce and would be happier in domestic roles?

[Speaker to Animals]

The debate between Milspecs and Partyof5 is getting to the nitty gritty...
That's about how far apart we actually are.... in other words, not very if at all...

According to STA women have it way better and men way worse.... and of course the radical feminists have it the other way around...

Possibly trauma on both sides... I dunno... or something else is going on.... some identity thing.... some reason to stake a flag on your hill and shoot all comers.

Men demonstrably have a far more difficult existence in this society than women. I do not believe it's even debatable without lies, like the wage gap, etc. Male and female suicide rates used to be equal. Since the 1960s when this experiment began in earnest, male suicide rates have skyrocketed to something over 90% of all cases. Male life expectancy and general health are on the decline. Men are not afforded equal justice under the law, and not even due process in many case. Male victims of female rape are ignored, and women rapists receive much less sentencing than male rapists. Then you always get the inevitable "he was just a lucky boy!" bullshit, which is an actual rape culture when you think about it. Women initiate divorce the majority of the time and they get sole custody the majority of the time. Men are more likely to pay more in child support than what women do if women lose custody. Visitation rights are ignored by law enforcement and courts.

Even the fake problems invented by feminists belie bigger problems for men. The so-called wage gap happens because men are expected to work long hours to support women and children. That could be considered a good thing in a traditional society, but in our society we pretend like women are the equals of men. They have jobs too. But they choose not to work as much. Then when they divorce, they use this very fact against us as if *they* were the victims all this time, living off the labor of the husband.

The welfare system is almost entirely designed for women. Most homeless are men. Most housing charities cater exclusively to women, even though women are only a small fraction of the homeless.

Most workplace deaths are men. Women do not choose dangerous work. If women are not capable of a well-paying job, they can simply produce children and live off child support and welfare, which actually earns them more than they would receive working a fast food register or mopping floors.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Y’all are trying to convince an outlier who apparently suffered a massive trauma with logic. That’s not going to work. Only therapy can turn StA from his chosen path at this point. The outlier will never believe they’re an outlier, even when everyone they interact with tells them “no, relationships generally aren’t like that at all”.

/shrug

i am hardly the outlier and personal attacks will not counter my argument either.

Using MHF as a sample I'd say you are an outlier when it comes to your relationship experience. You are at the far end of the spectrum when it comes to that. It doesn't make your views or opinions invalid. It is important though to realize that most of us do not see woman and relationships the way you do.

I have largely the same opinions, I’m just less militant than he is. Modern women are a joke.

[Speaker to Animals]

97% of workplace deaths in America are men dying.

Imagine the shit storm that would ensue if it were the other way around. Women would claim we force them into dangerous occupations to keep civilization running. They would demand gender equality in workplace deaths.

But instead, there was a story a few years ago where, because of the Bush recession, so many men had lost work, the numbers of men dying on the job had declined a bit (because even there, in recessions, men are more likely to suffer than women, economically). This meant that, though the raw numbers of women dying in the workplace remained the same, the percentage of total workplace deaths rose, and they were actually complaining that this signaled a woman's issue.

[nmoore63]

I think the over correction was natural given the starting point.

I think the reversal is already in progress. I don't see any new support for silly, but dangerous, concepts like Yes Mean Yes.
(though those losing might screaming even louder as their support continues to reseed)

Equality of Agency.
Not equality of outcome.

I.E. A random Man makes more than a random Woman. That fact alone does not mean a government action needs to be taken.

[Montegriffo]

<women are mentally stronger leading to fewer suicides and are far less accident prone in the workplace>

[clubgop]

i am hardly the outlier and personal attacks will not counter my argument either.

Using MHF as a sample I'd say you are an outlier when it comes to your relationship experience. You are at the far end of the spectrum when it comes to that. It doesn't make your views or opinions invalid. It is important though to realize that most of us do not see woman and relationships the way you do.

I have largely the same opinions, I’m just less militant than he is. Modern women are a joke.

Less militant? You attack them with a biological weapon.

[Speaker to Animals]

I think the over correction was natural given the starting point.

I think the reversal is already in progress. I don't see any new support for silly, but dangerous, concepts like Yes Mean Yes.
(though those losing might screaming even louder as their support continues to reseed)

Equality of Agency.
Not equality of outcome.

I.E. A random Man makes more than a random Woman. That fact alone does not mean a government action needs to be taken.

I used to think that was the case, but I no longer do.

If you honestly sat back and imagined both sexes coming to the table -- honestly this time -- to work out a balance of roles that makes each of us happier and strengthens society, you'd pretty much end up with where we started.

I think the lie is that women had it oh so terrible prior to the 1960s. They really did not, and their plummeting happiness tells the tale.

I would not like to block women from careers like we once did -- if they want to do those things. But we should not forget that most women don't really want that lifestyle, hence the unhappiness in career women and the rising numbers of women who just said fuck it and became single mothers.

I wouldn't mind women volunteering for armed forces, but they have to meet the same standards as men. If they cannot, then they are not a fit for the military.

The issue arose with the difference between equality of outcomes and equality before the law/customs. Women are not our equals physically. This is obvious. Nor are there nearly as many highly-intelligent women as highly-intelligent men (the inverse is true as well, with far more truly stupid men than truly stupid women). Therefore, you should expect to see the military dominated by men. You should expect to see STEM fields dominated by men. Like, duh.

Once we adopted this attitude that men and women are equal in substance, everything got fucked up because we really are not equal in substance, and the different outcomes are a result of differences between men and women, including our preferences.