Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Montegriffo]

Shit, there are loads of them...

[Speaker to Animals]

Free Trade 100% increases total material wealth of the system as a whole.

False as fuck. Thank God people are finally rising up against this cancerous ideology, though. Really. I am glad so-called "free traders" have a backseat now. They've done quite enough damage already.

Yeah, that's not evidence that people are demonstrably wealthier. GDP growth doesn't measure wealth for the majority of participants. Check out real income:



Your bullshit ideology fucked our entire nation right in the ass.

It's over. Americans are done with it.

[nmoore63]

False as fuck. Thank God people are finally rising up against this cancerous ideology, though. Really. I am glad so-called "free traders" have a backseat now. They've done quite enough damage already.

Yeah, that's not evidence that people are demonstrably wealthier. GDP growth doesn't measure wealth for the majority of participants. Check out real income:



Your bullshit ideology fucked our entire nation right in the ass.

It's over. Americans are done with it.

1) I already brought up that it doesn't measure how the wealth is distributed.
2) I already brought up that it only makes the entire system richer. It can absolutely make some sections of the system poorer.

[nmoore63]

False as fuck. Thank God people are finally rising up against this cancerous ideology, though. Really. I am glad so-called "free traders" have a backseat now. They've done quite enough damage already.

Yeah, that's not evidence that people are demonstrably wealthier. GDP growth doesn't measure wealth for the majority of participants. Check out real income:



Your bullshit ideology fucked our entire nation right in the ass.

It's over. Americans are done with it.

Also... just because I can't stand a bullshit cherry picked chart:

[Otern]

If you are poor you drive a small car with high MPG or LPG.

It all boils down to ''whatever you penalize you get less of''.

No.

If you are poor, you drive whatever car you can afford. Old, used cars, with high gas consumption are way cheaper than the new Tesla. At least at first. Poor people can't make that initial investment which they can save money on in the long run, so they end up with cheaper cars, with higher operational costs.

Also, the best cars for urbanites, like an electric car the size of a suitcase, would be great for me, as I live in a city. Plenty of places to load the batteries, and short distances to any place I'd want to go, so the low range of an electric car is not really an issue.

But those cars aren't viable if you live in a rural area. No battery charging stations within reach. Low range, so you're not actually getting anywhere on a full battery. You need diesel or gasoline in those areas. Excessive taxes on diesel and gasoline won't actually help anything in rural areas, as the people need those cars anyway. It works in urban areas, because urbanites have a choice, and even if there weren't excessive taxes, an electric car would probably be the best option anyway.

[Montegriffo]

If you are poor you drive a small car with high MPG or LPG.

It all boils down to ''whatever you penalize you get less of''.

No.

If you are poor, you drive whatever car you can afford. Old, used cars, with high gas consumption are way cheaper than the new Tesla. At least at first. Poor people can't make that initial investment which they can save money on in the long run, so they end up with cheaper cars, with higher operational costs.

Also, the best cars for urbanites, like an electric car the size of a suitcase, would be great for me, as I live in a city. Plenty of places to load the batteries, and short distances to any place I'd want to go, so the low range of an electric car is not really an issue.

But those cars aren't viable if you live in a rural area. No battery charging stations within reach. Low range, so you're not actually getting anywhere on a full battery. You need diesel or gasoline in those areas. Excessive taxes on diesel and gasoline won't actually help anything in rural areas, as the people need those cars anyway. It works in urban areas, because urbanites have a choice, and even if there weren't excessive taxes, an electric car would probably be the best option anyway.

My little 998cc Polo is worth about £300. It does loads of mpg and is taxed at a low rate.
Electric cars aren't cheap enough yet but by the time they are there will be plenty of charge points.
I have a rich juggler mate who drove to see me from Paris in his Tesla. He was able to do the whole journey and visit several other people in England all just using Tesla power points. Having a Tesla all the electricity was free. A fast charge gave him 80% battery life in 20 mins.
All it cost him was the price of a few service station coffees while he waited.

[Otern]

My little 998cc Polo is worth about £300. It does loads of mpg and is taxed at a low rate.
Electric cars aren't cheap enough yet but by the time they are there will be plenty of charge points.
I have a rich juggler mate who drove to see me from Paris in his Tesla. He was able to do the whole journey and visit several other people in England all just using Tesla power points. Having a Tesla all the electricity was free. A fast charge gave him 80% battery life in 20 mins.
All it cost him was the price of a few service station coffees while he waited.

Electric cars aren't cheap enough yet. And that's why it would make sense to build up the infrastructure in the rural areas, so electric cars could be an option in the future. Not just go "well fuck you guys, go electric", and tax the shit out of them, expecting the situation to solve itself.

There's shitloads of Teslas here in Norway. And we have a pretty good infrastructure for them, compared to the rest of Europe. But it's still impossible to live in the rural areas, and rely on an electric car. The infrastructure hasn't been built up yet. And it's probably worse in France. Possible to go from city to city, sure, but not the kind of driving people usually do in rural areas.

And the Teslas still aren't cheap enough. If you have a Tesla, you're already rich enough to pay the gas taxes anyway. Poor rural people can't afford a Tesla, and it doesn't matter how cheap it is to use it, if that's not the kind of car they can get anyway. It's more of a tax exemption for the rich, than anything else.

It's really infuriating really. As those electric cars don't run on sunshine and good intentions. France's electrical grid is run on nuclear power. And if they buy from outside of France, it's run on German brown coal. Electric cars can be low emission, but that's depending on where they get their electricity from. And Europe at this moment get a shit ton of electricity from fossil fuels. If a car gets its electricity from coal, rather than simply run on gasoline, it has a much higher carbon footprint, because of basic rules of energy conversion efficiency.

[heydaralon]

My little 998cc Polo is worth about £300. It does loads of mpg and is taxed at a low rate.
Electric cars aren't cheap enough yet but by the time they are there will be plenty of charge points.
I have a rich juggler mate who drove to see me from Paris in his Tesla. He was able to do the whole journey and visit several other people in England all just using Tesla power points. Having a Tesla all the electricity was free. A fast charge gave him 80% battery life in 20 mins.
All it cost him was the price of a few service station coffees while he waited.

Electric cars aren't cheap enough yet. And that's why it would make sense to build up the infrastructure in the rural areas, so electric cars could be an option in the future. Not just go "well fuck you guys, go electric", and tax the shit out of them, expecting the situation to solve itself.

There's shitloads of Teslas here in Norway. And we have a pretty good infrastructure for them, compared to the rest of Europe. But it's still impossible to live in the rural areas, and rely on an electric car. The infrastructure hasn't been built up yet. And it's probably worse in France. Possible to go from city to city, sure, but not the kind of driving people usually do in rural areas.

And the Teslas still aren't cheap enough. If you have a Tesla, you're already rich enough to pay the gas taxes anyway. Poor rural people can't afford a Tesla, and it doesn't matter how cheap it is to use it, if that's not the kind of car they can get anyway. It's more of a tax exemption for the rich, than anything else.

It's really infuriating really. As those electric cars don't run on sunshine and good intentions. France's electrical grid is run on nuclear power. And if they buy from outside of France, it's run on German brown coal. Electric cars can be low emission, but that's depending on where they get their electricity from. And Europe at this moment get a shit ton of electricity from fossil fuels. If a car gets its electricity from coal, rather than simply run on gasoline, it has a much higher carbon footprint, because of basic rules of energy conversion efficiency.

Good post. We have some teslas here. At this point they are a curiosity. I know at my college they had a Tesla charging port in the parking garage. I have seen a couple places with those ports. I do have a soft spot in my heart for oil though. I like it quite a bit. Right now gas in orlando is around 2.23 a gallon, maybe a bit less. That's what I paid yesterday. Yessir, Daralon enjoys that cheap gas. I'm doing a lot of driving to spread out my emissions so they distribute evenly all around my state, and don't just build up in one spot, trying to be environmental and all that...

[Montegriffo]

My little 998cc Polo is worth about £300. It does loads of mpg and is taxed at a low rate.
Electric cars aren't cheap enough yet but by the time they are there will be plenty of charge points.
I have a rich juggler mate who drove to see me from Paris in his Tesla. He was able to do the whole journey and visit several other people in England all just using Tesla power points. Having a Tesla all the electricity was free. A fast charge gave him 80% battery life in 20 mins.
All it cost him was the price of a few service station coffees while he waited.

Electric cars aren't cheap enough yet. And that's why it would make sense to build up the infrastructure in the rural areas, so electric cars could be an option in the future. Not just go "well fuck you guys, go electric", and tax the shit out of them, expecting the situation to solve itself.

There's shitloads of Teslas here in Norway. And we have a pretty good infrastructure for them, compared to the rest of Europe. But it's still impossible to live in the rural areas, and rely on an electric car. The infrastructure hasn't been built up yet. And it's probably worse in France. Possible to go from city to city, sure, but not the kind of driving people usually do in rural areas.

And the Teslas still aren't cheap enough. If you have a Tesla, you're already rich enough to pay the gas taxes anyway. Poor rural people can't afford a Tesla, and it doesn't matter how cheap it is to use it, if that's not the kind of car they can get anyway. It's more of a tax exemption for the rich, than anything else.

It's really infuriating really. As those electric cars don't run on sunshine and good intentions. France's electrical grid is run on nuclear power. And if they buy from outside of France, it's run on German brown coal. Electric cars can be low emission, but that's depending on where they get their electricity from. And Europe at this moment get a shit ton of electricity from fossil fuels. If a car gets its electricity from coal, rather than simply run on gasoline, it has a much higher carbon footprint, because of basic rules of energy conversion efficiency.

An electric car charged with power from coal is still cleaner than a fossil fuel car due to the efficiency of scale.

[TheReal_ND]

Nope. Gasoline packs a heck of a load. Coal much less so but the energy used to convert coal into electricity is already a loss. Coal depends on speeding turbines with steam. Turbines require a large amount of resources to manufacture and maintain. Gas, or as you bongs like to call it, "petrol," practically comes straight out of the ground via crude oil. Gasoline requires minimal processing input really it is just a matter of heating up crude or sweet and siphoning the stuff off the top. Gasoline is the most powerful mass to energy product we have short of exotics that require more input. Natural gas or propane is to my knowledge a close second if not superior but again, a lot more goes into building a motor that can efficiently process it. Gasoline is king, rather diesel is actually it requires far less processing that is why it is taxed more, and there is nothing you can do to stop it while SA has a seemingly unending supply of sweet crude.

All that is beside the point. The riots in France were ostensibly about the "gas" tax. It may have been perhaps. The reality is that this "gas" tax was a carbon tax implementation. In Europe you literally get taxed for consuming the most efficient form of energy transfer currently available to combat global warming. Who pays? Not the oil companies. The average citizen is getting taxed to "protect" the environment in order to enrich the coffers so that more foreign hordes can be housed and given free shit.

Just lol really

So duped it is actually funny now that I think of it.

I do wonder though about the long term viability of solar energy. I'm not very well versed in how it works. From what I have heard it is inefficient atm. I think it should be considered an alternative form of energy because at times, we can not really depend on the sun from earth. Windmills seem to be much more of the same. What you need is a solid form of energy that comes from the earth until you can branch out. Oil is that. Nuclear energy could be I suppose.