Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Montegriffo]

So penalize transportation costs for poor people and you get less economic prosperity? Great plan.

Poor people don't drive an SUV, big-engined sports car or a 4x4.

It's a fuel tax, Monty. It's hitting everybody no matter what they drive. You're committing a red herring fallacy here.

Also, most Euro sports cars are not "big engined" at all.

We were talking ''climate tax'' so I brought up our vehicle tax penalties for those types of car.
Small cars with low emissions and electric cars pay no vehicle tax at all.
Private heavy goods vehicles pay the standard tax as do other commercial vehicles so businesses aren't so affected.
Farmers pay much less tax on their fuel.
LPG is half the price of diesel because it is much cleaner.

If you are poor you drive a small car with high MPG or LPG.

It all boils down to ''whatever you penalize you get less of''.

[C-Mag]

I always have a very difficult time understanding what the French rioters want.

They riot over so many conflicting demands.

Otern's explanation of the situation seems the most correct:

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/euro ... ion-france

The social movement is a mosaic of French working-class experiences, of people feeling disenfranchised from the urban elite who “can focus on the end of the world, while we’re worrying about the end of the month”, as one yellow vest put it. The movement isn’t affiliated to any party. It has been violent at times – two people have died in moments of panic involving cars – and racist and homophobic slurs have been reported during blockades. But mostly, the movement reveals what an op-ed in Le Monde describes as the new “territorial and fiscal divides”. It declared: “The growing gap between rulers and ruled has fed the democratic disenchantment, then rejection, and now its secession.”

Compare to the MSNBC:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/who- ... ey-n940016

“The white middle class, the forgotten middle class in France,” said Famke Krumbmüller, an expert in French politics at OpenCitiz political consultancy firm in Paris.

Krumbmüller said the people protesting were those who pay the high French taxes and social charges — which cover benefits such as the state pension and unemployment insurance — but feel they get little in return because they are not the poorest in society.

“They’re fed up with the rising prices and the cost of living,” she explained. “They feel like the political elite is forgetting about them.”

"French working class" vs. "White Middle Class". No mention of the issues mentioned by both Otern and the New Statesman article in the MSNBC piece.

+1
I think he nailed it too.

[nmoore63]

Brexit is almost certainly going to make Britain, in total, materially poorer.
That's just the nature of free trade.
Not sure why anyone would even attempt an argument to the contrary.

Hence, I am skeptical that one would be making such an argument in good faith.

Self determination is its own reward.

Also, Total GDP does not tell you how the goods are distributed across society.

[Speaker to Animals]

HA HA HA HA HA

No. "Free trade" demonstrably made Americans a whole fuck ton poorer, dude.

God, I hate that slogan. It's not trade and it's not free. It's a job offshoring program.

[nmoore63]

HA HA HA HA HA

No. "Free trade" demonstrably made Americans a whole fuck ton poorer, dude.

God, I hate that slogan. It's not trade and it's not free. It's a job offshoring program.

Free Trade 100% increases total material wealth of the system as a whole.

[Montegriffo]

[Speaker to Animals]

HA HA HA HA HA

No. "Free trade" demonstrably made Americans a whole fuck ton poorer, dude.

God, I hate that slogan. It's not trade and it's not free. It's a job offshoring program.

Free Trade 100% increases total material wealth of the system as a whole.

False as fuck. Thank God people are finally rising up against this cancerous ideology, though. Really. I am glad so-called "free traders" have a backseat now. They've done quite enough damage already.

[nmoore63]

HA HA HA HA HA

No. "Free trade" demonstrably made Americans a whole fuck ton poorer, dude.

God, I hate that slogan. It's not trade and it's not free. It's a job offshoring program.

Free Trade 100% increases total material wealth of the system as a whole.

False as fuck. Thank God people are finally rising up against this cancerous ideology, though. Really. I am glad so-called "free traders" have a backseat now. They've done quite enough damage already.

[Montegriffo]

[nmoore63]

You'd think a country that was a global empire 100 years ago, would have learned the lesson that people care about self determination for its own sake.