Worst Thing About Open Boarders Is Brain Drain From Shithole Countries

[PartyOf5]

I'm not shit posting. If someone is smart and hard working, let's offer them citizenship.

So you support the 1% getting richer. That's what this is, the already talent rich country of the US getting richer at the expense of poor countries that need every talented soul they can find.

[jediuser598]

If they're citizens, and they can do a better job than you for less pay, then it's a free market.

I had this argument with my brother a little while back.

If Toyota makes a better product than Ford, why would I buy Ford? Because Ford is American? My concern is the better product, but also where the money goes. Now, we're never going to lure Toyota to America, but is it really acceptable to endure a lesser product simply because it is American?

If we're losing a fair game in the global market, isn't that a bad thing? Don't we want the best people? If the best person were born Indian, or Chinese, or Russian, shouldn't we want them to live their lives as Americans? If they renounce their former citizenship?

Well for one, I'm just stating something obvious to the high tech American workers that is often ignored by people who are generally sympathetic to labor issues, not necessarily arguing one way or the other.

I'm not sure what you're arguing though. You're making a liberal argument in support of some mercantilist nationalist goal of making America the best or something. Importing replacement engineers certainly helps businesses, I'm not sure if that's great for America or particularly Americans.

I think free trade and free investment is best for the world overall, but I get why people are against it when the rules aren't the same and especially when individuals and countries find themselves without or have lost their comparative advantage.

I want America to be the best. That is my central premise. Say the best engineer in the entire world is Brazillian, or from Ecuador, or Argentina, is it wrong to try and lure them to America?

Our engineers will say "But, it will lose us our jobs if you import the best!" Well, tough. People get fired from jobs everyday, how can we promoted American exceptionalism and protect American mediocrity at the same time? We can't. If an American Engineer loses their job to someone who comes over here and becomes a citizen, then they should have performed better.

What I propose is the preservation of the right to compete, and that you're not going to die in the streets if you lose. The safety net has to stay in place, but coddling American mediocrity is a sure way to ruin this country.

[PartyOf5]

If Toyota makes a better product than Ford, why would I buy Ford? Because Ford is American? My concern is the better product, but also where the money goes. Now, we're never going to lure Toyota to America, but is it really acceptable to endure a lesser product simply because it is American?

Oh really?

http://fortune.com/2015/06/29/cars-made-in-america/

The Toyota Camry is, apparently, the most American vehicle on sale in the U.S.

[doc_loliday]

I want America to be the best. That is my central premise. Say the best engineer in the entire world is Brazillian, or from Ecuador, or Argentina, is it wrong to try and lure them to America?

Our engineers will say "But, it will lose us our jobs if you import the best!" Well, tough. People get fired from jobs everyday, how can we promoted American exceptionalism and protect American mediocrity at the same time? We can't. If an American Engineer loses their job to someone who comes over here and becomes a citizen, then they should have performed better.

Okay I understand you now. You want a strong nation state and support liberal policies as long as they align with that premise. I would only say that history has demonstrated to me that individual rights get trampled with this type of system.

[Speaker to Animals]

You believe that our civilization would be better off with all liberals were dead. What sense is there to reason with you?

Yes. We obviously would be better off. That is a demonstrable, supportable fact.

Stating that we'd be better off as a civilization if marxists and liberals were dead is not the same as stating civilization would be better off if we murdered marxists and liberals.

Going to stop you from the outset.

You're, in your mind perhaps, doing this in a hypothetical way. What do I have to say to you? Fuck you.

You want me dead. I am a real, living, breathing person who has argued with and conversed with you for years. I even thought you a real friend once, or something akin to it. But you want me dead. I'm not hypothetical. I'm real.

So fuck you dsl.

I never said I want you dead. You cut out all that. Did not bother to read it.

Because you are totally lost. Brainwashed. Zombie.

You don't bother to try to understand what people are telling you. You just run on this Marxist program which tells you what to think.

Go back and read the post you cut out. Actually sit there and try to understand what I actually conveyed to you? Can you even do that anymore, or was my advice to KY dead right?

[jediuser598]

I want America to be the best. That is my central premise. Say the best engineer in the entire world is Brazillian, or from Ecuador, or Argentina, is it wrong to try and lure them to America?

Our engineers will say "But, it will lose us our jobs if you import the best!" Well, tough. People get fired from jobs everyday, how can we promoted American exceptionalism and protect American mediocrity at the same time? We can't. If an American Engineer loses their job to someone who comes over here and becomes a citizen, then they should have performed better.

Okay I understand you now. You want a strong nation state and support liberal policies as long as they align with that premise. I would only say that history has demonstrated to me that individual rights get trampled with this type of system.

How so?

[C-Mag]

The worst thing about open boarders


All the blood on the deck

[doc_loliday]

How so?

How so? I can tell you about my thoughts on human nature, but since that isn't something we can prove I would point to history. When your system prioritizes the survival and prosperity of the nation state over that of the individual, you necessarily pit your nation against everyone else's. Why not enforce tariffs? Or subsidize industry? Or squelch unions? Those things are best for the nation. Why not maximize exports and minimize imports? Those things are best for the nation. Rival nations failing is in the best interest of the state too. It's this thought process that supports and in fact contributed to imperialism and colonialism. War necessarily follows. It's a zero sum game that is basically textbook realist theory.

In this case liberal philosophy aligns with your desired outcome, and so I'm not necessarily against what you want, but I do worry because I'm reading more and more economic arguments with the justification being, it's best for the country/nation state.

[Fife]

The worst thing about open boarders


All the blood on the deck

Correct, it's not necessary to open, or run through, boarders to evict them as soon as it is apparent they are trespassing.

Least violent necessary measures, &c.

I'm even in favor of free helicopter rides before just "opening" the (unwelcome) boarders.

Did the Romans even do that?

[doc_loliday]

The Romans had open borders, a welfare state, and universal basic income. It was in fact, the secret to the longevity of the empire.