Hindus

[Montegriffo]

It was said with humor. ‘Mass homicides’ was a lazy term. I should have said ‘persecutions’.

Ok. So, just in terms of percentages compared to today: By how many percentages would you imagine the amount of persecution in the world, and/or amount of war, would decline if religion was abolished everywhere? 1% 2? 25% 50? 80%? Other?

I don't advocate state abolishment of religion. I advocate the individual rejection of it.

If all religion were "abolished", the consequences would be horrific.

If humanity were to reject it en masse, and simply opt out of superstition, we would quickly reach a new Golden Age. But it won't happen in my lifetime, unless we somehow contact another intelligent civilization.

I'm solidly behind you on this one Grumps, it's about time we grew out of all these devisive outdated God bothering ways and moved forward together into a slightly less oppressive future without them. All of them...

[DBTrek]

Zealots gotta zealot I guess.
/shrug

[Fife]

There are other human motivational systems than fear of the supernatural. With far less oppressive consequences.

If anything, Capitalism is inherently a rejection of religion, just as much as Communism.

Did you just call fear of the supernatural more oppressive than communism?

Seems like there would be more people clamoring to get into North Korea than studying in seminaries and madrassas if that were the case.

We're all just hick kulaks, don't you know?

[Montegriffo]

Yes to rules
No to rulers

Unless they are invisible.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Ok. So, just in terms of percentages compared to today: By how many percentages would you imagine the amount of persecution in the world, and/or amount of war, would decline if religion was abolished everywhere? 1% 2? 25% 50? 80%? Other?

If humanity were to reject it en masse, and simply opt out of superstition, we would quickly reach a new Golden Age. But it won't happen in my lifetime, unless we somehow contact another intelligent civilization.

A golden age, huh? Based on...? Do you believe that the only reason people would possibly murder each other in massive numbers, the only possible motivation people can have to commit genocide, to persecute people, to wage war... is religion/spirituality/superstition?

Based on my understanding of humanity.

No, of course we could find other reasons to kill each other. But the ability to drum up million-man armies is directly proportional to the amount of religious motivation you can leverage against your society. The only other way that happens is through complete demonization of The Other, fear of imminent attack, or fear of scarcity. The tribe itself must be threatened somehow. It's historically been far, far too easy to mix God and State into a recruiting/motivational tool, for great evil.

"Is religion/spirituality only superstition?"
Organized religion is most certainly superstition. Any action without a rational basis is superstition.
I'd never oppose anyone's right to believe in the invisible spaghetti monster, so long as it doesn't infringe on others. But that infringement has been inherent in organized religion, throughout time.

[SuburbanFarmer]

There are other human motivational systems than fear of the supernatural. With far less oppressive consequences.

If anything, Capitalism is inherently a rejection of religion, just as much as Communism.

Did you just call fear of the supernatural more oppressive than communism?

Seems like there would be more people clamoring to get into North Korea than studying in seminaries and madrassas if that were the case.

No, Kathy.

[nmoore63]

I wouldn't get too worked up about Hindu's.

There is a reason they have been subjugated far more than they have had any sort of self rule.

Once you believe in reincarnation... its pretty difficult to get folks riled up enough about the present to rebel or conquer.

[BjornP]

I'm solidly behind you on this one Grumps, it's about time we grew out of all these devisive outdated God bothering ways and moved forward together into a slightly less oppressive future without them. All of them...

Right. As long as religion ain't there anymore, there won't be anyone around anymore who'd want to control how you fuck, how you talk, how you act, how you believe. Oh, and of course... not having religions anymore, would obviously mean societies become much more rational, scientific, and not prone to unproven, untestable and unscientific belief systems. Like homeopathy... or democracy and human rights.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I wouldn't get too worked up about Hindu's.

There is a reason they have been subjugated far more than they have had any sort of self rule.

Once you believe in reincarnation... its pretty difficult to get folks riled up enough about the present to rebel or conquer.

The Sikhs are legendary warriors. They were never really subjugated, to my knowledge, until the British came along.

You can get a lot of fight out of somebody that expects to come right back after death.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I'm solidly behind you on this one Grumps, it's about time we grew out of all these devisive outdated God bothering ways and moved forward together into a slightly less oppressive future without them. All of them...

Right. As long as religion ain't there anymore, there won't be anyone around anymore who'd want to control how you fuck, how you talk, how you act, how you believe. Oh, and of course... not having religions anymore, would obviously mean societies become much more rational, scientific, and not prone to unproven, untestable and unscientific belief systems. Like homeopathy... or democracy and human rights.

It's not as much of a factor now, in the developed world, but the third world still regularly holds mass slaughter as a tenet of their various faiths.

Just try to imagine where the West would be by now, without the Catholics sticking pokers up peoples' assholes for wrongthink. They enforced illiteracy for 1,000 years, just to maintain control. You want to pretend that that hasn't had an effect?