A Discussion: Needle Exchanges

[Kath]

Yet we never can wrangle the definition of success from you. All we ever get is repeated assurances that it’s totally successful almost everywhere.

Not buying.

The article I linked has a dozen links to scientific studies, so, yes, except for all of that, I have been very vague.

ROI - We spend one dollar and it saves 6 - that's the generic definition of success which came from the NIH, IIRC.

[DBTrek]

The articles I linked likewise showed enormous costs and degraded quality of life for all involved - facts Your studies pointedly ignore as they myopically focus on the minuscule program rewards. Your studies can’t even claim an economic victory if they have to consider collateral costs, which is why they never do.

It’s tantamount to championing slavery because “Look at those labor participation numbers for minorities, y’all! Study after study after study confirms that more blacks have work under slavery!”

Of course, this ignores all the collateral costs and degraded quality of life people encounter under slavery - but wow, those labor participation numbers yo!

[Speaker to Animals]

Now as to what I actually posted: let's rebuild mental health hospitals and start institutionalizing people again instead of leaving them on the streets to die.

Hang on....

Government institutions are the height of liberal paternalism.... especially government mandated "care".
Paying state employees to house and care for people against these peoples will....
This is the height of liberalism.... and it's gargantuan costs to achieve alienation and hostile dependence.

Wow STA... do you even see the contradictions in your position here.

I am neither progressive nor a conservative.

I care about what works and I actually care that people don't die on the streets. If this thread hasn't convinced you yet that both conservatives and progressives (both being liberals) are perfectly willing to allow drug addicts to die on the streets, then I don't know what else to tell you.

Liberalism is not synonymous with government solutions. That's a ridiculous canard presented by conservatives (who I might add are liberals too, but applied to economics) to differentiate themselves from their cousins, the progressives. This whole government or no-government discussion is just silly.

But if you don't want the government to deal with it, then allow the churches to run it, and empower the prosecutors to institutionalize people in those facilities.

Just stop enabling it and maybe give a shit about your fellow humans. Throwing heroin and free needles at drug addicts is evil. Walking on by while drug addicts die on the streets is also evil. Fuck liberalism.

[Kath]

The articles I linked likewise showed enormous costs and degraded quality of life for all involved - facts Your studies pointedly ignore as they myopically focus on the minuscule program rewards. Your studies can’t even claim an economic victory if they have to consider collateral costs, which is why they never do.

I think Seattle would be a shithole without their needle program, due to all of their crazy policies, as we have both agreed in the thread on that topic. But, who knows, maybe getting rid of the needle program in Seattle WILL make the poop disappear. You could be absolutely right about that, but we'll likely never know.

I'd bet money on not, though.

[DBTrek]

Indiana is hardly a bastion of loony lefty policies, and it's working there.

2nd Indiana county ends needle exchange, with 1 official citing moral concerns

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/201 ... 787740001/

Indeed.
Looks like it’s a highly prosperous endeavor for them.

[Kath]

Did you read it?

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Johns Hopkins University, the World Health Organization and former Indiana State Health Commissioner-now U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams, however, back evidence that shows the programs are a proven way to prevent disease.

Jeebus told him it was bad. There's some hard science, right there. C'mon DB.

But Lawrence County commissioner Rodney Fish's opposition was biblical. According to Vox, Fish quoted 2 Chronicles 7:13-14 before voting against the program: "If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; if my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”

Fish told NBC News that it was "a moral issue" for him.

“I gave it a great deal of thought and prayer," he told NBC. "My conclusion was that I could not support this program and be true to my principles and my beliefs.”

[Speaker to Animals]

There it is ^^^

They don't understand morality at all. Drug abuse carries costs that we all have to pay one way or another. If you shut down the mental asylums and and then try to clean up all the negative externalities of your liberalism with crazy social programs, then you still have crime waves, dead people on the streets, piles of HIV needles, Hepatitus shit on the sidewalks, etc. You could literally pay with your life by way of violent crime perpetrated by desperate drug addicts, but don't let that stop you from denying morality.

Liberals would rather watch civilization burn to the ground than to admit God was right.

[DBTrek]

One politician makes one bible quote - “Jeebus idiot”
One progressive disaster repeatedly cites one HIV stat - “Proven success”



Fuckit. Why do I bother?

[Kath]

One politician makes one bible quote - “Jeebus idiot”

?? You said it was a failure in Indiana. The program closed because the politician had morality issues with it. That doesn't make it a failure. It means he wasn't willing to try.

[DBTrek]

One politician makes one bible quote - “Jeebus idiot”

?? You said it was a failure in Indiana. The program closed because the politician had morality issues with it. That doesn't make it a failure. It means he wasn't willing to try.

The ENTIRE city council participated in voting it down. ONE city council member cited the Bible. Leftist douchebag media predictably run “Dummy Godblatherer Defeats Virtuous Program” headline. Lemming public predictably jumps on board with the obviously skewed narrative.

As I said, why do I bother?
One council member defers to god as the source of his righteousness.
You defer to an isolated 6% HIV metric for yours.
You are both more alike than you are different - neither of you willing to look beyond the narrow scope of your predetermined beliefs to challenge their assumptions.