How is the Russia Investigation not Serious

[ooky]

Lay out your arguments for me. I am completely flummoxed when I come here and 1) see very, very little about any new developments that are crazy serious, and 2) what comments there are just seem to completely dismiss the entire idea as so stupid no discussion is needed.

Here is what I see hard evidence for that has not been successfully contradicted by the Trump administration. Sure, they have screamed “13 angry Democrats” (also not true), “witch hunt”, “no collusion”, while giving no evidence for their positions at all, just catch phrases and blanket “there’s nothing here” statements. In point of fact, over time we’ve learned again and again that things that were categorically denied by the administration turned out to be true, and we are only given explanations like “it’s not a crime to lie to the press”.

1. In 2016, Putin’s regime mounted information warfare against the United States. Their aim was to disrupt the election and get Trump elected. The CIA determined this as fact in Dec 2016. This conclusion has only had more evidence to support it since then, to the point we now know which Facebook memes were from Russian accounts, that they targeted battleground states, and Homeland Security testified to the Senate in June 2017 that Russian hackers targeted voting systems in 21 states.
a. Yes, US and others do this and worse to other countries. That doesn’t make it right. I consider it a terrible stain on our country that we do this. That argument does not clear Trump.
2. While this direct attack on our democracy was underway, Trump campaign was covertly trying to collude with Russia – sending Papodopolous, and it is highly likely that Manafort was reaching out through his connections as well. We do know Manafort was who you should have as campaign manager if you DID want to have a secret direct connection to Russia, as he’s been paid at least $12.7 MM in illegal cash from the pro-Russian Ukranian president Victor Yanukovych and has worked as an advisor to him and others for over 10 years. Manafort is currently under formal indictment for conspiracy against the US.
3. We know for a fact that when the Russian government explicitly offered them help, they jumped at the chance, and have lied about it ever since last summer, omitting this from forms, first saying it was about adoption, then admitting they were interested in Russian dirt on Clinton. Now the only thing they haven’t formally admitted, though Guiliani did, is whether Trump knew about it. And right after Don Jr got the info that there was Russian dirt, the Trump campaign was making announcements that they had big news to share on Clinton.
4. The Trump campaign repeatedly gaslit America in 2016 and said none of this was happening, providing cover for the Russian activities while they were happening.
5. The Trump campaign aligned itself against foreign nationals and assisted a foreign adversary for their own gain. This is illegal and a basic betrayal of our country.

The only question that remains, and the only possible shred of truth to the “No Collusion” tweets, is that we don’t yet know if Trump directly contacted Russians himself, or if he just knew it was going on and did nothing to stop it or change elements of his campaign that were seeking to further this.

It is not a witch hunt when an investigation secures 17 criminal indictments and already 5 guilty pleas. Number of indictments or guilty pleas for Benghazi or emails? 0 and 0, and those investigations lasted longer than this one already.

[TheReal_ND]

Lay out your arguments for me

Hi- I mean Putin is a very bad man and Trump says bad things.

[Speaker to Animals]

[TheReal_ND]

FBI protects our sacred democracy. I love the FBI now. #MeToo

[ooky]

These are logically awesome and intellectually serious counter arguments! LOL

By DSL's logic regarding the FBI, it seems we really should outlaw all firearms because singular gun owners have done bad, stupid, and dangerous things.

[pineapplemike]

1. In 2016, Putin’s regime mounted information warfare against the United States.

information is the lifeblood of democracy, no? if it was indeed the russians that hacked and released the DNC and podesta emails, then i owe them my thanks for providing me, the voter, with pertinent information going into the 2016 election that would have been otherwise kept hidden from me, the taxpayer.

in soviet russia, democracy undermines you

[TheReal_ND]

These are logically awesome and intellectually serious counter arguments! LOL

By DSL's logic regarding the FBI, it seems we really should outlaw all firearms because singular gun owners have done bad, stupid, and dangerous things.

outlaw all guns

Evil Putin collusion

Who's going to shoot the Russians if guns are outlawed?

[Martin Hash]

Lay out your arguments for me. I am completely flummoxed when I come here and 1) see very, very little about any new developments that are crazy serious, and 2) what comments there are just seem to completely dismiss the entire idea as so stupid no discussion is needed.

Here is what I see hard evidence for that has not been successfully contradicted by the Trump administration. Sure, they have screamed “13 angry Democrats” (also not true), “witch hunt”, “no collusion”, while giving no evidence for their positions at all, just catch phrases and blanket “there’s nothing here” statements. In point of fact, over time we’ve learned again and again that things that were categorically denied by the administration turned out to be true, and we are only given explanations like “it’s not a crime to lie to the press”.

1. In 2016, Putin’s regime mounted information warfare against the United States. Their aim was to disrupt the election and get Trump elected. The CIA determined this as fact in Dec 2016. This conclusion has only had more evidence to support it since then, to the point we now know which Facebook memes were from Russian accounts, that they targeted battleground states, and Homeland Security testified to the Senate in June 2017 that Russian hackers targeted voting systems in 21 states.
a. Yes, US and others do this and worse to other countries. That doesn’t make it right. I consider it a terrible stain on our country that we do this. That argument does not clear Trump.
2. While this direct attack on our democracy was underway, Trump campaign was covertly trying to collude with Russia – sending Papodopolous, and it is highly likely that Manafort was reaching out through his connections as well. We do know Manafort was who you should have as campaign manager if you DID want to have a secret direct connection to Russia, as he’s been paid at least $12.7 MM in illegal cash from the pro-Russian Ukranian president Victor Yanukovych and has worked as an advisor to him and others for over 10 years. Manafort is currently under formal indictment for conspiracy against the US.
3. We know for a fact that when the Russian government explicitly offered them help, they jumped at the chance, and have lied about it ever since last summer, omitting this from forms, first saying it was about adoption, then admitting they were interested in Russian dirt on Clinton. Now the only thing they haven’t formally admitted, though Guiliani did, is whether Trump knew about it. And right after Don Jr got the info that there was Russian dirt, the Trump campaign was making announcements that they had big news to share on Clinton.
4. The Trump campaign repeatedly gaslit America in 2016 and said none of this was happening, providing cover for the Russian activities while they were happening.
5. The Trump campaign aligned itself against foreign nationals and assisted a foreign adversary for their own gain. This is illegal and a basic betrayal of our country.

The only question that remains, and the only possible shred of truth to the “No Collusion” tweets, is that we don’t yet know if Trump directly contacted Russians himself, or if he just knew it was going on and did nothing to stop it or change elements of his campaign that were seeking to further this.

It is not a witch hunt when an investigation secures 17 criminal indictments and already 5 guilty pleas. Number of indictments or guilty pleas for Benghazi or emails? 0 and 0, and those investigations lasted longer than this one already.

There are NO legal arguments here AT ALL.

However, 2 or 3 high level FBI officials will be going down for evidence-based crimes against the Trump campaign.

[TheReal_ND]

[clubgop]

I can answer this in detail, this will take time and brain power I will not devote that until I have enjoyed my weekend as unlike the OP this will not be a copy and paste job.