Gorsuch Rules Violent Illegals Should Stay

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DBTrek
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Gorsuch Rules Violent Illegals Should Stay

Post by DBTrek » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:05 am

Neil Gorsuch sides with liberals in Supreme Court deportation case

WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that a law subjecting immigrants to deportation for crimes of violence is unconstitutionally vague, handing the Trump administration an early defeat.

President Trump's nominee to the high court, Justice Neil Gorsuch, joined the liberal majority's 5-4 opinion in deciding that the law passed by Congress failed to define what would qualify as a violent crime.

The ruling was a victory for James Garcia Dimaya, whose two burglary convictions were considered violent crimes under the statute — despite not having involved violence. It was a defeat for the Justice Department, which had defended the law under both the Trump and Obama administrations....

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/840229001
:doh:

“We can’t deport illegals that are violent criminals because Congress won’t tell us what a violent criminal is”.

Score another win for the Hanarchy Montarchy helplessness defense. How can we know what capable is? How can we know what a violent criminal is? Anarchy must reign because we’re simply too inept, stupid, or obstinate to understand basic terms and concepts.

Wonderful.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Gorsuch Rules Violent Illegals Should Stay

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:08 am

Maybe we should just drop the violent part. Surely a crime is sufficient to deport them?

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DBTrek
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Re: Gorsuch Rules Violent Illegals Should Stay

Post by DBTrek » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:10 am

Crime would include all of them, as they’ve entered the country illegally. Good enough for me, but no way you’ll pull leftists or the political class on board.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Hanarchy Montanarchy
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Re: Gorsuch Rules Violent Illegals Should Stay

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:11 am

I didn't want post-fact, but we are in it now, so get on the bus.
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
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Kath
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Re: Gorsuch Rules Violent Illegals Should Stay

Post by Kath » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:14 am

It depends on what the definition of is, is.

:doh: :roll:
Why are all the Gods such vicious cunts? Where's the God of tits and wine?

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Gorsuch Rules Violent Illegals Should Stay

Post by Speaker to Animals » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:21 am

DBTrek wrote:Crime would include all of them, as they’ve entered the country illegally. Good enough for me, but no way you’ll pull leftists or the political class on board.

:shhh:

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Fife
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Re: Gorsuch Rules Violent Illegals Should Stay

Post by Fife » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:02 am

DBTrek wrote:
Neil Gorsuch sides with liberals in Supreme Court deportation case

WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that a law subjecting immigrants to deportation for crimes of violence is unconstitutionally vague, handing the Trump administration an early defeat.

President Trump's nominee to the high court, Justice Neil Gorsuch, joined the liberal majority's 5-4 opinion in deciding that the law passed by Congress failed to define what would qualify as a violent crime.

The ruling was a victory for James Garcia Dimaya, whose two burglary convictions were considered violent crimes under the statute — despite not having involved violence. It was a defeat for the Justice Department, which had defended the law under both the Trump and Obama administrations....

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/840229001
:doh:

“We can’t deport illegals that are violent criminals because Congress won’t tell us what a violent criminal is”.

Score another win for the Hanarchy Montarchy helplessness defense. How can we know what capable is? How can we know what a violent criminal is? Anarchy must reign because we’re simply too inept, stupid, or obstinate to understand basic terms and concepts.

Wonderful.
If anyone is interested in something other than USAToday coverage: http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/ca ... -v-dimaya/


1. This case is not about illegals. The defendant in this case was a legal resident, and has been since 1992. The case is about what Congress has done to set out the rules one what will get a legal U.S. resident's ticket punched.

The statute in question is the federal INA.
The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) renders deportable any alien convicted of an “aggravated felony” after entering the United States. 8 U. S. C. §1227(a)(2)(A)(iii). Such an alien is also ineligible for cancellation of removal, a form of discretionary relief allowing some deportable aliens to remain in the country. See §§1229b(a)(3), (b)(1)(C). Accordingly, removal is a virtual certainty for an alien found to have an aggravated felony conviction, no matter how long he has previously resided here.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/1 ... 8_1b8e.pdf


2. Before anybody starts the ZOMG Gorsuch is a cuck hooey, understand the case (on at least a superficial level) and then take a moment to read what he actually wrote.
JUSTICE GORSUCH, concurring in part and concurring in the judgment.

Vague laws invite arbitrary power. Before the Revolution, the crime of treason in English law was so capaciously construed that the mere expression of disfavored opinions could invite transportation or death. The founders cited the crown’s abuse of “pretended” crimes like this as one of their reasons for revolution. See Declaration of Independence ¶21. Today’s vague laws may not be as invidious, but they can invite the exercise of arbitrary power all the same—by leaving the people in the dark about what the law demands and allowing prosecutors and courts to make it up.

The law before us today is such a law. Before holding a lawful permanent resident alien like James Dimaya subject to removal for having committed a crime, the Immigration and Nationality Act requires a judge to determine that the ordinary case of the alien’s crime of conviction involves a substantial risk that physical force may be used. But what does that mean? Just take the crime at issue in this case, California burglary, which applies to everyone from armed home intruders to door-to-door salesmen peddling shady products. How, on that vast spectrum, is anyone supposed to locate the ordinary case and say whether it includes a substantial risk of physical force? The truth is, no one knows. The law’s silence leaves judges to their intuitions and the people to their fate. In my judgment, the Constitution demands more.

*
I begin with a foundational question. Writing for the Court in Johnson v. United States, 576 U. S. ___ (2015), Justice Scalia held the residual clause of the Armed Career Criminal Act void for vagueness because it invited “more unpredictability and arbitrariness” than the Constitution allows. Id., at ___ (slip op., at 6). Because the residual clause in the statute now before us uses almost exactly the same language as the residual clause in Johnson, respect for precedent alone would seem to suggest that both clauses should suffer the same judgment. But first in Johnson and now again today JUSTICE THOMAS has questioned whether our vagueness doctrine can fairly claim roots in the Constitution as originally understood. See, e.g., post, at 2–6 (dissenting opinion); Johnson, supra, at ___–___ (opinion concurring in judgment) (slip op., at 6–18). For its part, the Court has yet to offer a reply. I believe our colleague’s challenge is a serious and thoughtful one that merits careful attention. At
day’s end, though, it is a challenge to which I find myself unable to subscribe. Respectfully, I am persuaded instead that void for vagueness doctrine, at least properly conceived, serves as a faithful expression of ancient due process and separation of powers principles the framers recognized as vital to ordered liberty under our Constitution.

. . .

Whether Madison or his adversaries had the better of the debate over the constitutionality of the Alien Friends Act, Congress is surely free to extend existing forms of liberty to new classes of persons—liberty that the government may then take only after affording due process. See, e.g., Sandin v. Conner, 515 U. S. 472, 477–478 (1995); Easterbrook, Substance and Due Process, 1982 S. Ct. Rev. 85, 88 (“If . . . the constitution, statute, or regulation creates a liberty or property interest, then the second step—determining ‘what process is due’—comes into play”). Madison made this very point, suggesting an alien’s admission in this country could in some circumstances be analogous to “the grant of land to an individual,” which “may be of favor not of right; but the moment the grant is made, the favor becomes a right, and must be forfeited before it can be taken away.” Madison’s Report 319. And, of course, that’s exactly what Congress eventually chose to do here. Decades ago, it enacted a law affording Mr. Dimaya lawful permanent residency in this country, extending to him a statutory liberty interest others traditionally have enjoyed to remain in and move about the country free from physical imprisonment and restraint. See Dimaya v. Lynch, 803 F. 3d 1110, 1111 (CA9 2015); 8 U. S. C. §§1101(20), 1255. No one suggests Congress had to enact statutes of this sort. And exactly what processes must attend the deprivation of a statutorily afforded liberty interest like this may pose serious and debatable questions. Cf. Murray’s Lessee, 18 How., at 277 (approving summary procedures in another context). But however summary those procedures might be, it’s hard to fathom why fair notice of the law—the most venerable of due process’s requirements—would not be among them.

Today, a plurality of the Court agrees that we should reject the government’s plea for a feeble standard of review, but for a different reason. Ante, at 5–6. My colleagues suggest the law before us should be assessed under the fair notice standard because of the special gravity of its civil deportation penalty. But, grave as that penalty may be, I cannot see why we would single it out for special treatment when (again) so many civil laws today impose so many similarly severe sanctions. Why, for example, would due process require Congress to speak more clearly when it seeks to deport a lawfully resident alien than when it wishes to subject a citizen to indefinite civil commitment, strip him of a business license essential to his family’s living, or confiscate his home? I can think of no good answer.

Any lingering doubt is resolved for me by taking account of just some of the questions judges trying to apply the statute using an ordinary case analysis would have to confront. Does a conviction for witness tampering ordinarily involve a threat to the kneecaps or just the promise of a bribe? Does a conviction for kidnapping ordinarily involve throwing someone into a car trunk or a noncustodial parent picking up a child from daycare? These questions do not suggest obvious answers. Is the court supposed to hold evidentiary hearings to sort them out, entertaining experts with competing narratives and statistics, before deciding what the ordinary case of a given crime looks like and how much risk of violence it poses? What is the judge to do if there aren’t any reliable statistics available? Should (or must) the judge predict the effects of new technology on what qualifies as the ordinary case? After all, surely the risk of injury calculus for crimes like larceny can be expected to change as more thefts are committed by computer rather than by gunpoint. Or instead of requiring real evidence, does the statute mean to just leave it all to a judicial hunch? And on top of all that may be the most difficult question yet: at what level of generality is the inquiry supposed to take place? Is a court supposed to pass on the ordinary case of burglary in the relevant neighborhood or county, or should it focus on statewide or even national experience? How is a judge to know? How are the people to know?

The implacable fact is that this isn’t your everyday ambiguous statute. It leaves the people to guess about what the law demands—and leaves judges to make it up. You cannot discern answers to any of the questions this law begets by resorting to the traditional canons of statutory interpretation. No amount of staring at the statute’s text, structure, or history will yield a clue. Nor does the statute call for the application of some preexisting body of law familiar to the judicial power. The statute doesn’t even ask for application of common experience. Choice, pure and raw, is required. Will, not judgment, dictates the result.


https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/1 ... 8_1b8e.pdf
So, please, enjoy reading what Mr. Justice Repo Man actaully wrote, and not vapid, misleading newspaper headlines. His opinion is separate from all the other eight black dresses on this one.
Last edited by Fife on Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DBTrek
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Re: Gorsuch Rules Violent Illegals Should Stay

Post by DBTrek » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:05 am

Thanks for clarifying.

Trying to do CPR on a dying forum so maybe not reading articles as closely as I should.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"