Where Did Putin Go Wrong?

[kybkh]

During the decade following 9/11 Russia was allowing us to use their railway for military transport. We used their former bases in the Stans. We sent them a reset button and potatoes. The international community gave them Olympics and World Cup. Then, all of the sudden we realize Putin is KGB?

What did Putti-poot do? Whose caviar did he piss in? Whose sex slave did he steal?

I just want WW3 to make sense, is that too much to ask?

[Smitty-48]

I just want WW3 to make sense, is that too much to ask?

Step one, stop pretending that Mr. Ivan is your friend and/or that Mr. Ivan wants to be your friend.

Mr. Ivan is revanchist against you for the collapse of the Soviet Union in the Cold War, he blames you, and he has not forgotten nor forgiven.

Putin? He's not Mr. Ivan, he's just Mr. Ivan's little sidekick.

Mr. Ivan wants to see you laid low, he's just trying to figure out a way to do it without getting nuked in the process.

[DrYouth]

And yet...

WW3

Really?

Cuz the Ruskis wacked some of their enemies in London?

Cuz Syria?

How SIFCLF do we need to get about WW3 with Mr Ivan?

[Smitty-48]

World War Three happens if/when, in his endeavor to lay America low without getting nuked in the process, Mr. Ivan steps on a tripwire and blows the whole kibbutz by misapprehension, miscalculation and/or mistake.

[Smitty-48]

Also bear in mind, there are other players in the game who add wildcards to the mix, for example, the United States is at DEFCON 4 right now, not because of Mr. Ivan, rather because of the North Koreans, none the less, when America escalates to DEFCON 4, Mr. Ivan will mirror that with whatever he calls DEFCON 4, although I don't think he really has a DEFCON 4, pretty sure they only have three levels of heightened readiness, so he would be at whatever he calls DEFCON 3.

[kybkh]

Still doesn't answer my question.

Obviously, the West made an effort to embrace Russia in the 2000s. Why didn't it work out?

Ukraine was the red line for Putin. He played by the rules, as crooked as they may be, only to have the US lead a color revolution for no other reason than to damage the Russian economy.

That seemed to be the tipping point. Georgia was all Saakashvili, but sabotaging the re-uniting of Mother Russia and her bread basket surely destroyed any hope that Putin might of had for becoming part of the Liberal World Order.

[Smitty-48]

Still doesn't answer my question.

Obviously, the West made an effort to embrace Russia in the 2000s. Why didn't it work out?

Mr. Ivan doesn't want it to work out, Mr. Ivan's whole raison d'etre is to be the bulwark at the gates standing guard against the American Eagle poised to destroy the Rodina, if that goes away, Mr. Ivan is largely out of a job, so it's revanchism + job security basically.

[Smitty-48]

Oh and by the way, the tipping point came long before Crimea, when Mr. Ivan started to de facto violate the INF 87' treaty and Mr. Bush pulled out of the ABM 72' treaty, that's where Mr. Ivan found his opening to heat things up again.

Because, he wants to keep things hot, he needs to keep things hot, not too hot, as per the the "don't want to get nuked in the process" caveat, but as hot is it can be, without actually reaching that threshold.

[Speaker to Animals]

You have it backwards. Putin made moves to align with the US after 9-11. Bush rebuffed him. We also got involved in their internal affairs with Georgia and a few other spots (which escalated to our fuckery in Ukraine a few years ago).

It's going to be a while before there is another window for cooperation opened again.

In the meantime, we need to drain the swamp, gas the neocons and democrats, and stop fucking with people so much.

[kybkh]

Oh and by the way, the tipping point came long before Crimea, when Mr. Ivan started to de facto violate the INF 87' treaty and Mr. Bush pulled out of the ABM 72' treaty, that's where Mr. Ivan found his opening to heat things up again.

Because, he wants to keep things hot, he needs to keep things hot, not too hot, as per the the "don't want to get nuked in the process" caveat, but as hot is it can be, without actually reaching that threshold.

I hear ya. Really hard to put oneself in Putin's shoes facing the shit show he is trying to manage over there.

Of topic, any suggestions for a Pershing bio to read?