Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

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DBTrek
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Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by DBTrek » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:35 pm

Most of us are probably aware of payday loan places. These are the lenders that make short term loans to generally low income people. The popular sentiment (at least among politicians) is the these places prey on the poor and engage in predatory lending practices by charging astronomical interest rates. Worst of the worst, right?

That's one way to look at it.

Consider looking at these operations with a more critical eye. It's true, the interest rates they charge are high. The NYT once ran a story proclaiming that these places make loans at annualized interest rates of 312%.
But . . . who takes a year to repay a payday loan? That's like saying a hotel room costs $42,000 a year.
People don't rent hotel rooms by the year, nor do they take out payday loans for that long. That's not the purpose of a payday loan.

Now, consider the amount and duration of a payday loan. the WSJ says the average payday loan is $300 and lasts for two weeks. What sort of risks do payday loan places face that might explain their interest rates? Let's list a few:
  • * Interest must compensate for the fact the loan may not be paid back at all by the high risk borrower
    * Interest must compensate for the fact that the borrower likely has no collateral of sufficient worth to mitigate the risk of the loan
    * Interest must compensate for the time that the money is loaned out instead of being put to alternative uses
    * Interest must compensate for the various fixed costs and labor costs of processing the loan
Now, put yourself in the shoes of the lender. How much do you need to charge to make it worth your time to hand $300 to a high risk borrower with no collateral, plus pay your own employees to process that loan paperwork, plus pay all additional fixed costs involved in securing the loan? You'll have to make significant money from this type of transaction to justify using money this way instead of putting it to an alternative use.

For reference, many payday lenders will charge about $15 in interest per $100 lent.

The Do-Gooder Effect: Consumer advocates in Oregon were able to get a law passed restricting these places to 36% annual interest. Since most payday loans conclude in two weeks or less, this restricted lenders to making about $1.50 per loan. This amount is insufficient to cover the cost of processing the loan, much less any of the risk that needs to be mitigated. What happened? Three-quarters of the payday loan places in Oregon shut down.

Who are the losers?

Not the payday loan entrepreneurs. They have several other types of businesses they can invest in. The losers ware the low income people who desperately need $300 right now. They once had a short term lender that could hand them cash on the spot. Now they have nothing.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by Speaker to Animals » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:43 pm

Those guys can save your ads in a bind. Banks spend a lot of money to demonize them, though.

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Haumana
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Re: Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by Haumana » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:52 pm

This sounds eerily similar to your price gouging post.

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Martin Hash
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Re: Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by Martin Hash » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:58 pm

I heard lots of wealthy people use Payday loans. Wait... No I didn’t, only those with no other options do. There’s a reason The 1% are wealthy: they deserve it. The poor fuckers who must use Payday loan services deserve what they get too. God intended it that way.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

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Martin Hash
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Re: Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by Martin Hash » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:59 pm

Libertarian economics is worse than Libertarianism.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

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DBTrek
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Re: Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by DBTrek » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:02 pm

Haumana wrote:This sounds eerily similar to your price gouging post.
It should.
I'm picking subjects where I think people will have a visceral/emotional reaction on an economic topic, then trying to lead them through the actual factors at play.

People feel strongly about payday loan places.
People feel strongly about "price gouging".
But do they really understand the machinations at work behind these things?

I mean, I could write a post on market and non-market economies but that thing would have like 2 views and ZERO replies.

So the next one will probably be minimum wage, or unions, or rent control.
People have feelings about all that.
;)
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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DBTrek
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Re: Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by DBTrek » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:13 pm

Martin Hash wrote:I heard lots of wealthy people use Payday loans. Wait... No I didn’t, only those with no other options do. There’s a reason The 1% are wealthy: they deserve it. The poor fuckers who must use Payday loan services deserve what they get too. God intended it that way.
Wealthy people have their own payday loan places, in the form of "collateral lenders". Basically functioning like pawn shops for the affluent. They also charge interest rates that can exceed 200% annually - though again, the loans aren't meant to be taken out for a year. The interest is still high, but having collateral brings it down. Plus, while the processing fee on a $15,000 loan is the same as it is on a $300 one, it's a much smaller percentage of the overall transaction.
/shrug

I wonder if any of your rich friends would give me $300 today if I randomly walked up to them and promised to repay them $345 in two weeks.
Because a payday loan place would totally do that crazy shit.
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"

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Haumana
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Re: Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by Haumana » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:18 pm

DBTrek wrote:
It should.
I'm picking subjects where I think people will have a visceral/emotional reaction on an economic topic, then trying to lead them through the actual factors at play.

People feel strongly about payday loan places.
People feel strongly about "price gouging".
But do they really understand the machinations at work behind these things?

I mean, I could write a post on market and non-market economies but that thing would have like 2 views and ZERO replies.

So the next one will probably be minimum wage, or unions, or rent control.
People have feelings about all that.
;)

It's a worthy endeavor. Even got Hash to abandon his "luck" premise and convert him, now it is a preordained dynamic.

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by Speaker to Animals » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:18 pm

They really aren't that bad. not just poor use them. Small businesses use them all the time, especially contractors.

Banks are ass these days anyway with all their hidd3n fees and bullshit. Payday and check cashing shops are at least honest.

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DBTrek
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Re: Economics: PayDay Loans- Bastards or Black Sheep?

Post by DBTrek » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:23 pm

I used a "predatory lender" to get a motorcycle so I could have something to drive to work and back when I first moved to Seattle.
My credit was thrashed.
I was sleeping on my friends couch.
I had one backpack of belongings and nothing else.
I needed the money, so I could start making money.

Ended up paying about $3200 for a $1800 motorcycle, but I secured a steady income that ultimately led to me establishing a life out here.
Glad those guys were around!
"Hey varmints, don't mess with a guy that's riding a buffalo"