Self Actualization

[Martin Hash]

Self Actualization is a term that only makes complete sense in a nation that values liberty as its primary goal. Liberty, the concept that people make decisions for themselves & suffer the consequences or reap the rewards thereof. Liberty requires opportunity, and opportunity requires flexibility, meaning the goal of American society is to relentlessly increase productivity so that each of us spend less-n-less time working for others, and more-n-more time working on ourselves.

[Okeefenokee]

Give em' twelve acres and a tractor and let them spend all their time working for themselves.

[heydaralon]

Self Actualization is a term that only makes complete sense in a nation that values liberty as its primary goal. Liberty, the concept that people make decisions for themselves & suffer the consequences or reap the rewards thereof. Liberty requires opportunity, and opportunity requires flexibility, meaning the goal of American society is to relentlessly increase productivity so that each of us spend less-n-less time working for others, and more-n-more time working on ourselves.

Martin, as I've stated earlier if you really want to earn some big bucks and become self actualized you need to get on this Amway multi level marketing thing with me. Don't leave millions of dollars on the table, and don't turn your back on this financial opportunity.

[Speaker to Animals]

I never really understood what self actualization means, honestly. It seems to mean some nebulous state of fulfilment, the circumstances of which depend upon the person's worldview. But most of all, it sounds like an atheist's version of the teleological end of a man. Kind of like the interior, psychological version of the worldly utopia in which everybody lives in complete material fulfilment and social harmony.


But the rest of what you wrote was very Jeffersonian. When he wrote the Declaration of Independence, the word happiness did not mean what it means today. Today we define that word as a kind of joy or contentment. In the 18th century it meant something more like the Greek word eudaimonia, which describes a fulfilment of one's purpose in the world.

My biggest criticism of the Enlightenment is that it conceived the government's role so as to facilitate the production of as much goods as possible. The well-being of the people, it was assumed, is tied only to the fulfilment of material wants and needs. It's base goal is to establish a kind of utopia where utopia is defined as the society which produces as much goods as it's members want to consume, and it maximizes license as much as possible without infringing upon the rights of others. Most of you I think still agree with this.

But I would argue license always and necessarily leads towards compulsion. We are living that truth today. Nor does the mass production of material things make people feel more content. In fact, many studies indicate quite the opposite has occurred.

Regardless of how one wants to define things like liberty, and where you stand on them, I think one should recognize that we lost grasp of something that once made western society much more cohesive and provided people with meaning and contentment in their lives. When I read men like Jung speak of actualization, the impression I receive from them is one of a Nietzschean sense of despair at the loss of meaning and purpose coupled with an existentialist drive to assist people to define their own purpose in the blackness left over and to achieve it. But what's the point, really, without an objective meaning to your life?

You can have the license to pursue all sorts of hedonistic pleasures, amass wealth, do whatever you want, but without that purpose, none of it means a damned thing. The Enlightenment has reduced you to a consumer and a pursuer of pleasure. Your purpose in this society created by Enlightenment rebels is to work towards production, pay taxes to the state, and to consume shit. It reduces us back towards our animal nature, constantly in pursuit of pleasure and comfort, but not pursuit of real virtues or inner growth whatsoever.

I don't believe a person operating under that framework can ever achieve true fulfillment, eudaimonia, or "self-actualization". To achieve those things, you really need to become deeply counter-cultural, transgressive, and reject the role the Enlightenment has foisted upon you. Which is not easy.

[Martin Hash]

I can say from personal experience that my self-actualization resulted in almost total contentment. I spend my days now looking for the humor in things, seeking understanding, and satisfying my curiosity. I would recommend this path to all but I know that most don't have the chops to achieve it.

p.s. It was Benjamin Franklin who crossed out the word "property" (from Locke, not Jefferson) and substituted "pursuit of happiness," probably because BF was an elitist & thought class was determined by property ownership, so being a populist, he thought the Little People should still be able to obtain happiness.

[Speaker to Animals]

Do you have the chops to become a saint?

I look at what you consider fulfillment, and to me, it seems pretty sad. I am more impressed by people like St. Vincent or St Thomas.

For that matter, I am more impressed with somebody like Rudolf Nureyev. He achieved absolute excellence at his art. Or Paul Erdős.

Pursuing pleasure and wealth is not all that impressive. I am more interested in your ideas and your character. Why would I be impressed by your appetites?

In any case, the problem with the idea that a government can somehow facilitate the pursuit of happiness/purpose/self-actualization is that, depending upon our worldviews, we can have radically different -- and conflicting -- conceptions of those things. And yet we have to coexist within a democracy in which each of us has exactly one vote. Somebody is going to lose, and therefore the idea that the government can foster his self-actualization is demonstrably false.

[Speaker to Animals]

If anything, I suspect the government we have is absolutely opposed to the self-actualization of fulfillment of the American people in general. People who find their purpose in life tend to make bad consumers and producers of mass shit.

[heydaralon]

Martin:
I remember when I became self actualized. It was the day that I signed up for Amway. I'll admit, I was skeptical at first, but Amway has consistently shown me returns that even the stock market cannot match. However actualized you think you are Martin, you are not anywhere close to Amway actualization. I understand if you aren't interested. Most men don't have the chops for marketing useful products that benefit society.

St. Bernard and St. Helena were fine souls, but I became Saint Daralon when I got my entire family on board to this scheme and made more levels than a knife going across a measuring cup of flour. I put the needs of Amway before even my own family (not that they are complaining being multimillionaires from MLM) and I encouraged them to tell others about this truly innovative approach to stacking some serious coin. We can probably still find a spot for you in the Amway family Martin, but you need to act quickly.

[Martin Hash]

(I took it back.)

[C-Mag]

I never really understood what self actualization means, honestly.

To me it's pretty simple.
To know ones strengths and weaknesses and working toward perfecting an area of your life. To me, self actualization is best described by what it is not. It is not being just another sheep going with the flow, doing what society tells you to do.

I think a small percentage of the entire population has it, many talk about it, but few do it, and it's more about doing than talking about it. Your Fasting is an example of someone who it self actualized and going for it.