Jobs

[Martin Hash]

"Jobs" is three concepts: (1) getting money, (2) establishing a work ethic & (3) career. We think of them as together but they don't have to be, and probably won't be in the future. Work Ethic is VERY IMPORTANT to society for all kinds of reasons, and that's the easiest problem to solve; you could come up with half-a-dozen ideas in a few minutes. Money should be tied to Work Ethic but not one-to-one, meaning a Basic Income amount could attach to any kind of work you do. Career is by far the most difficult...

[Speaker to Animals]

How would you pay by performance? Most companies do the raise and bonus point system based on supervisor reviews, but I find that is extremely political and not really based on actual performance in many cases.

It seems to me that, in reality, performance reviews are really social reviews and measure a person's social skills rather than job performance. The more liked they are, the higher the review.

I bet if you looked at the data at any fortune 500 corporation, women would show statistically higher points when reviewed by men, and if you went further to separate them by attractiveness, you'd see yet another shift.

I think our human social issues get in the way of business operation quite a lot to be honest. We are always playing political games, social games, sexual conquests, and whatnot. That stuff harms productivity and yet it somehow gets rewarded in the very review process meant to reward productivity.

[Martin Hash]

Life ain't fair: attractive women & tall men have the likability advantage; Jewish & fraternity people have the connections advantage; sharp-witted & lingustic people have the rhetorical advantage; and so it goes. No measure of performance can't be gamed; do your best to do so & expect other people to be working the system too.

[Speaker to Animals]

Life ain't fair: attractive women & tall men have the likability advantage; Jewish & fraternity people have the connections advantage; sharp-witted & lingustic people have the rhetorical advantage; and so it goes. No measure of performance can't be gamed; do your best to do so & expect other people to be working the system too.

I didn't say it was fair.

I asked how you are supposed to reward productivity specifically when most of the systems corporations implement to do so can actually penalize productivity while rewarding qualities that do nothing for the corporation. I don't have any good ideas either.

I have worked at several large corporations. Work ethic is not rewarded. I watched guys who would write insane numbers of lines of code each day with no real gain, while others could game the system to much greater effect. What we have now is not conducive to the goal of fostering work ethic. Employees game the system for gain at the expense of productivity and what's best for the people who cut their paychecks.

I just took the middle route. I did enough to get a bonus, but I didn't put that much effort into it because it wasn't worth it. Most people were the same way.

[Martin Hash]

I see nothing wrong with your tactic? That's how it is.

[Speaker to Animals]

If I were running a business, I'd be interested in rewarding only productivity. I am not sure how you do that, though, or if it's really even possible to transcend our social tendencies.


I think the worst example I ever learned about was the Enron-style review system where employees all rate each other in a Survivor-like election system for who gets fired at the end of each quarter. I really wonder about the IQ of the person who came up with that idea and thought it would work.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

"Jobs" is three concepts: (1) getting money, (2) establishing a work ethic & (3) career. We think of them as together but they don't have to be, and probably won't be in the future. Work Ethic is VERY IMPORTANT to society for all kinds of reasons, and that's the easiest problem to solve; you could come up with half-a-dozen ideas in a few minutes. Money should be tied to Work Ethic but not one-to-one, meaning a Basic Income amount could attach to any kind of work you do. Career is by far the most difficult...

Interesting.

Funny enough, in my mind, career is by far the easiest, and completely inextricable from work ethic. It is turning that reliably into money that is difficult.

[heydaralon]

Man I feel like the productivity vs. social skills debate is kind of like the same problem with corruption and politics vs. laws. There's no way to make laws that get rid of politics or triumph over it, because you need the politics to pass the laws. Its like the same thing with work. This bums me out because I am not socially skilled at all.

[Speaker to Animals]

Those fucking normies will pay.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Work ethic itself is important for a society. Work ethic at a job is not the same thing. Most employees perform out of fear of retribution, not out of any dedication to the work itself, or to be effective.