Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

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Penner
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Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by Penner »

Could Alexander the Great's Army Defeat Genghis Khan's in Battle?

By Quora Contributor

This question originally appeared on Quora.

Answer by Andy Lee Chaisiri, art director and game designer:

There's more than 1,000 years separating these two conquerors. The difference a millennium makes is:

Steel

Iron becomes steel when exposed to just the right amount of carbon, hardening it enough to keep an edge while maintaining enough flexibility to not be brittle. In Alexander the Great's time, steel was either unheard of or incredibly rare. (It's disputed.) In Genghis Khan's time, it was mass-produced by the ton to arm and armor entire armies.

Alexander's forces mostly wore pressed-linen armor. Parts of it were bronze and iron, but the majority was pressed linen, and it was good enough against the iron weapons of the time.

Genghis Khan's forces wore layered silk, lacquered leather, and steel. They had steel swords, steel spears, and steel-tipped arrows.

Saddle and stirrups

Both of these incredibly important inventions for horseback riding are often taken for granted, but since the first man sat on a horse without falling off, it took many centuries (400 B.C.) for the next man to figure out that putting a chair on a horse was indeed a good idea, and then a few centuries more (300 A.D.) to figure out that sticking his feet through loops attached to the horse-chair is even better.

Riding a horse without a solid saddle means all of your weight is on the animals' back. With a solid saddle, the weight of the rider is distributed over a larger area to the horse's flanks. This makes for a more comfortable experience for the horse, increasing its endurance.

For the rider, a saddle provides a more comfortable seat, greater elevation, a groove, and raised backing for support.

..............................................................


Genghis Khan wins this very lopsided battle.
Does anybody disagree with this answer?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2013/1 ... d_win.html
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Heraclius
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Re: Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by Heraclius »

It's a stupid situation in the first place. Why would Genghis Khan be fighting an army that's this immobile? The cavalry of Alexander, even if we assume that it is as strong as Mongolian cavalry in melee (it definitely isn't), has to protect the infantry lines. This means that Genghis Khan can go around this army and attack what it needs to attack. Alexander can either sit tight and eventually die to Mongolian bows which certainly had more force behind them than the bows of the Greek archers. He can retreat back into his cities where the Mongols will then bring their superior siege weaponry and destroy any fortification he has. Or he can keep marching forward and die dehydrated and supply-less in the steppes.

There's a reason the steppe armies were recognized as the best, and the Mongolians the best of the steppes.
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Hanarchy Montanarchy
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Re: Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy »

Assuming all else is equal (technology, size of army, et cetera) it makes me think of the old Go idea that you are playing a fast horse against a strong horse. Ghengis is the fast horse, for sure, but that doesn't always win.
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen
Heraclius
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Re: Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by Heraclius »

Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:Assuming all else is equal (technology, size of army, et cetera) it makes me think of the old Go idea that you are playing a fast horse against a strong horse. Ghengis is the fast horse, for sure, but that doesn't always win.
But that's just giving the Mongols more advantages. If the Mongols have as many men as the army of Alexander, that gives them a parity that nomadic steppe armies have just never had in battles.

Likewise, equalizing technology in effect just means that Alexander's army is going to be given Mongolian weaponry. Their archers are not going to be able to use Mongol bows effectively. While the swords, spears, lances, and such will not be foreign tools to the troops, they are still things they are uncomfortable with. A professional soldier is not going to like wearing new armor, holding a heavier shield, and using a new helmet when they were training all their life with other gear. Are we also going to give the cavalry of Alexander access to warhorses of the 1200s? Because those in themselves are going to require huge amounts of training to get used to as well.

There really is no way this ends in a victory for Alexander unless you force Genghis Khan to use an infantry-based army solely for fairness.
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Hanarchy Montanarchy
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Re: Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by Hanarchy Montanarchy »

You could also equalize it by giving Genghis shitty saddles and less powerful bows. Do you still thinks he wins?
HAIL!

Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen
Heraclius
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Re: Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by Heraclius »

Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:You could also equalize it by giving Genghis shitty saddles and less powerful bows. Do you still thinks he wins?
More than likely not as you just took out half of the Mongol central tactics while dreadfully weakening the other. This effectively makes the Mongols the Scythian tribes that Alexander faced in his attempts to conquer beyond the Persian frontiers in Central Asia.

All we have for information about this campaign basically stems from this battle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jaxartes

I doubt Genghis Khan would underestimate Alexander to the degree that the steppe nomads did in that battle, meaning that the likely outcome is shooting the Macedonians until they give up. Alexander is smart enough to not chase the nomads into their domain and his troops are disciplined enough to maintain formation. The outcome of the battle will ultimately be decided on where they fight. If it's in the middle of nowhere then Alexander has nowhere to run and he dies. However, Alexander would never be foolish enough to attack without a logistical plan so putting him in that situation is dishonest. This means he has to have access to a "safe-zone" via fort or city within a radius of safe retreat. Mongols kill some of the army, rest fall back and the never ending issue of the nomadic predicament that has perplexed civilized society continues to be a problem.
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katarn
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Re: Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by katarn »

"Stone walls do not a prison make, nor iron bars a cage...
If I have freedom in my love
And in my soul am free,
Angels alone that soar above
Enjoy such Liberty" - Richard Lovelace
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Penner
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Re: Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by Penner »

I just resurrected my old thread from the old DCF and moved it here.


http://forum.dancarlin.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39879
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katarn
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Re: Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by katarn »

We had two of these? Did no one remember when I broached the topic?
"Stone walls do not a prison make, nor iron bars a cage...
If I have freedom in my love
And in my soul am free,
Angels alone that soar above
Enjoy such Liberty" - Richard Lovelace
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Penner
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Re: Alexander the Great vs. Genghis Khan:Who Will Win?

Post by Penner »

katarn wrote:We had two of these? Did no one remember when I broached the topic?
I started my old thread back in 2013.
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