Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[SuburbanFarmer]

Why? Perhaps I have a little bit of humanity left in me, that hasn't been completely subjugated by the corporate machinery and corruption around me.

That edge was so sharp that those Syrian refugees can use it to behead you for mocking their prophet

Hashie asked me why, I answered.

[TheReal_ND]

Dumb

[SuburbanFarmer]

Yes, it is unnatural. Were you born like that or did you learn it from your parents? Since you're bragging about how much you "care," it's okay for me to brag about myself too, right?

Not bragging at all. I ignore street bums every day.

I still want an answer to the question of climate refugees. Do we wall the border and watch millions of them starve and rape each other in camps? Maybe drop some food to them, while we go on with the 9-5 grind, and argue red vs. blue?

Well clearly we are not taking them all in, so I guess it will be kind of like a reverse Escape from New York situation. I'm ok with dropping food in for them. I probably don't want an entire column of desperate dangerous people coming into my country though

So are you cheering for the rich people in Snowpiercer/Elyrium/any dystopian movie? That's us.

And how long does that last before the wall is breached, and Rome is sacked? It's not a winning strategy.

[heydaralon]

You'll find that any desperate group of poor people will band together and fight for turf in a strange place. That is not all that they're capable of, and it's not threatening our entire civilization. See: anybody in prison ever, every single ethnic group ever to land in America.

If you see Muslims as genetically or "ethnically" prone to violence, and they always will be, then you are, in fact, being a racist. I'll agree that they are currently, as a group, a shitty bunch of neighbors. But the immigrants will integrate, as all other have in the past. Now let go of your pearls, enforce the street laws, and it'll be ok.

I have no idea how this cultural conflict will turn out. I can't say that turning Europe into a giant petri dish to test your hypothesis is a good idea though. Also why is it that when muslims band together to do way more fucked up things than white people, you have a laundry list of excuses like "they are a desperate group of poor people" but when white people band together to protect what they view as an encroachment on their culture, you act like its the Fourth Reich? No one is arguing for a muslim genocide. That is certainly more humane than how muslims treat their neighbors. What people on this thread are pointing out, is that it is probably a dumb idea to stir the pot and let unrestricted immigration into long established ideologically different cultures. If the immigrants outbreed the original inhabitants, they will not keep the original institutions. Its kind of like what happened to the Native Americans lol.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You'll find that any desperate group of poor people will band together and fight for turf in a strange place. That is not all that they're capable of, and it's not threatening our entire civilization. See: anybody in prison ever, every single ethnic group ever to land in America.

If you see Muslims as genetically or "ethnically" prone to violence, and they always will be, then you are, in fact, being a racist. I'll agree that they are currently, as a group, a shitty bunch of neighbors. But the immigrants will integrate, as all other have in the past. Now let go of your pearls, enforce the street laws, and it'll be ok.

I have no idea how this cultural conflict will turn out. I can't say that turning Europe into a giant petri dish to test your hypothesis is a good idea though.

Not a hypothesis - we have 250 years of experimental evidence in America that it works.

Also why is it that when muslims band together to do way more fucked up things than white people, you have a laundry list of excuses like "they are a desperate group of poor people" but when white people band together to protect what they view as an encroachment on their culture, you act like its the Fourth Reich?

Because whites are already the dominant culture/ethnic group. We don't need to 'band together', because we already run the society. And what exactly are we supposed to protect, that's under threat? If you're talking about street crime, we have police for that.

No one is arguing for a muslim genocide.

You haven't been around here long.

That is certainly more humane than how muslims treat their neighbors. What people on this thread are pointing out, is that it is probably a dumb idea to stir the pot and let unrestricted immigration into long established ideologically different cultures. If the immigrants outbreed the original inhabitants, they will not keep the original institutions. Its kind of like what happened to the Native Americans lol.

That is not even remotely similar to what happened to the Native Americans, and you know it. We did not simply 'outbreed' them. Our appearance devastated the native population with disease, even before we started to massacre them on a continental scale. Hitler could only have dreamt of getting a few million citizens to exterminate Jews on their own initiative.

I'm not all that attached to our institutions, and neither are most on the Right - the supposed 'defenders' of our society. You may have noticed that they're interested in 'burning it down' at the moment via electing an imbecilic man-child to the presidency.

[heydaralon]

You are not attached to freedom of speech, women's rights etc? How valued are those things in muslim countries? Name a single majority muslim country that comes even remotely close to protecting those institutions as well a Western country does. Just one.

Also what is getting burned down? 110 muslims got inconvenienced at an airport and planned parenthood in fucking Rwanda is no longer getting subsidized by American tax dollars. The republic is truly in danger lol

[ssu]

You are not attached to freedom of speech, women's rights etc? How valued are those things in muslim countries? Name a single majority muslim country that comes even remotely close to protecting those institutions as well a Western country does. Just one.

I think that Bosnia Herzegovina comes close, and could achieve the standard.

Likely is something similar to Serbia or Greece, which although Christian are quite conservative societies. Don't see much Burkhas there in Bosnia, even if you do find the occasional women with her hair under veil. Legislation seems quite Western with things like gender equality laws and laws against domestic violence. And the country does have a Muslim majority.

Sarajevo street fashion:


No terrorist attack done by Bosniaks (at least I don't know of any, I could be wrong). So uh, sometimes the US can do things right. Unfortunately for you it was the wrong President in charge.

Yep, the country the US went into... AND CAME OUT! And things are rather OK and peaceful now.

[heydaralon]

Not bragging at all. I ignore street bums every day.

I still want an answer to the question of climate refugees. Do we wall the border and watch millions of them starve and rape each other in camps? Maybe drop some food to them, while we go on with the 9-5 grind, and argue red vs. blue?

Well clearly we are not taking them all in, so I guess it will be kind of like a reverse Escape from New York situation. I'm ok with dropping food in for them. I probably don't want an entire column of desperate dangerous people coming into my country though

So are you cheering for the rich people in Snowpiercer/Elyrium/any dystopian movie? That's us.

And how long does that last before the wall is breached, and Rome is sacked? It's not a winning strategy.

IF this climate refugee problem did happen, are you advocating letting every person in from the third world who is adversely afftected by climate change? Because that certainly would cause Western society to change beyond a recognizable point. It wouldn't be a slow change either. And contrary to your point about not liking our institutions, you do. You might not know it but you do. Your worldview is peculiarly Western. The open society we live in is Western. Yes, there are conservative people in our country, but they are not treating women like chattel, and saying that anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus be executed. Catholics do not murder cartoonists for making fun of the virgin Mary. Property crime does not result in amputation by Baptist law courts. Women can choose to cover their faces or uncover them, but in the West (except France idk) the important point is that they CAN choose. I am far more conservative than you on most things, but I have no desire for you to lose your full rights as a citizen, or restrict your speech and movement. We are having an argument in an open uncensored chat room. This discussion would not not be happening in such a public place in a muslim country in the Middle East.
I'm not claiming that Western values are universal or even ideal for rest of the world. But it has left a very important legacy on our culture and I think we should absolutely protect them by selecting who we let immigrate in, and recognize that they are far more delicate than progressives let on. There is nothing inevitable about them. They are like money. If enough of our population stops believing in them, they will cease to exist.

[heydaralon]

You are not attached to freedom of speech, women's rights etc? How valued are those things in muslim countries? Name a single majority muslim country that comes even remotely close to protecting those institutions as well a Western country does. Just one.

I think that Bosnia Herzegovina comes close, and could achieve the standard.

Likely is something similar to Serbia or Greece, which although Christian are quite conservative societies. Don't see much Burkhas there in Bosnia, even if you do find the occasional women with her hair under veil. Legislation seems quite Western with things like gender equality laws and laws against domestic violence. And the country does have a Muslim majority.

Sarajevo street fashion:


No terrorist attack done by Bosniaks (at least I don't know of any, I could be wrong). So uh, sometimes the US can do things right. Unfortunately for you it was the wrong President in charge.

Yep, the country the US went into... AND CAME OUT! And things are rather OK and peaceful now.

That was a good response

[SuburbanFarmer]

Well clearly we are not taking them all in, so I guess it will be kind of like a reverse Escape from New York situation. I'm ok with dropping food in for them. I probably don't want an entire column of desperate dangerous people coming into my country though

So are you cheering for the rich people in Snowpiercer/Elyrium/any dystopian movie? That's us.

And how long does that last before the wall is breached, and Rome is sacked? It's not a winning strategy.

IF this climate refugee problem did happen, are you advocating letting every person in from the third world who is adversely afftected by climate change? Because that certainly would cause Western society to change beyond a recognizable point. It wouldn't be a slow change either. And contrary to your point about not liking our institutions, you do. You might not know it but you do. Your worldview is peculiarly Western. The open society we live in is Western. Yes, there are conservative people in our country, but they are not treating women like chattel, and saying that anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus be executed. Catholics do not murder cartoonists for making fun of the virgin Mary. Property crime does not result in amputation by Baptist law courts. Women can choose to cover their faces or uncover them, but in the West (except France idk) the important point is that they CAN choose. I am far more conservative than you on most things, but I have no desire for you to lose your full rights as a citizen, or restrict your speech and movement. We are having an argument in an open uncensored chat room. This discussion would not not be happening in such a public place in a muslim country in the Middle East.
I'm not claiming that Western values are universal or even ideal for rest of the world. But it has left a very important legacy on our culture and I think we should absolutely protect them by selecting who we let immigrate in, and recognize that they are far more delicate than progressives let on. There is nothing inevitable about them. They are like money. If enough of our population stops believing in them, they will cease to exist.

Yes, and this is exactly why I'm so boggled by people vehemently opposing dealing with climate change. It is a systemic and world-altering danger. Yet somehow, the politicians (as directed by their corporate masters) have convinced millions of people to take the worst possible stance on it. 'Ignore and then build walls if/when it comes' is not a viable strategy.

They mock the idea with ridiculous hyperbole, and somehow fail to consider how this would play out. It would be - literally - the end of our current system.

And yes there are a small number of people that support insane sharia law measures, but they don't live in South or Central America. At worst, we'd have to add some Spanish to our signage, and probably start celebrating quinceneras.

Obviously I am not talking about THE ENTIRE THIRD WORLD - I'm talking about the many millions that would be dying on our doorstep.