American's living Paycheck to Paycheck

[Speaker to Animals]

The huge gains in productivity, for the most part, are being made by a small percentage of the population (primarily engineers). The guy working on the factory floor is not working harder or easier. He is more productive because industrial engineers designed better assembly lines and other engineers built better automation tools.

The guys getting boned are the software engineers. They are earning for their employers in some cases millions per line of code, and yet they might get paid maybe a few hundred per line of code if you divide it out at the end of the year. That's all profit for the employer.

Then the employers go to Congress each year, lie through their teeth (openly and without a shred of shame), and secure millions of H1B visas to glut the software engineer market even more.

Most Americans, in my estimation, have very little reason to complain about not getting paid for their productivity. It's only a small group of people who are driving all this innovation and productivity gains.

[Viktorthepirate]

I was using minimum wage as a yardstick. The problem is across all incomes for the most part.

And in some cases yes, minimum wage workers have drastically increased productivity as well. Depends on what time frame you are talking about.

Look at McDonalds.

What about McDonalds?
Did dropping a fry basket in oil become considerably more complex, demanding the talents of a more highly skilled worker lately?

Depends on the time frame...

But if we compare the 50's to now... yes, fantastically more efficient. If you got Netflix, watch "The Founder".

That's just one example. Amazon has drastically increased warehouse efficiency recently as well.

[Viktorthepirate]

The huge gains in productivity, for the most part, are being made by a small percentage of the population (primarily engineers). The guy working on the factory floor is not working harder or easier. He is more productive because industrial engineers designed better assembly lines and other engineers built better automation tools.

The guys getting boned are the software engineers. They are earning for their employers in some cases millions per line of code, and yet they might get paid maybe a few hundred per line of code if you divide it out at the end of the year. That's all profit for the employer.

Then the employers go to Congress each year, lie through their teeth (openly and without a shred of shame), and secure millions of H1B visas to glut the software engineer market even more.

Most Americans, in my estimation, have very little reason to complain about not getting paid for their productivity. It's only a small group of people who are driving all this innovation and productivity gains.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... s-labor/4/

[DBTrek]

Depends on the time frame...

But if we compare the 50's to now... yes, fantastically more efficient. If you got Netflix, watch "The Founder".

That's just one example. Amazon has drastically increased warehouse efficiency recently as well.

I've seen The Founder.
McDonald's brothers did all the innovation.
Ray Kroc did all the heavy planning, selling, and risked everything down to his personal home to make it work.
They got the millions.

Fry cooks are still dropping fries, and anyone in this forum could drop what they're doing right now and go take that job over if necessary.

So . . . seems like everything is in order, eh?

[ssu]

We used to have a lot of farmers.
Farmers owned lots of land and grew lots of food, man.
Now we don't.
Boo-hoo.

We used to have a lot of manufacturing jobs.
People did brainless bullshit on unionized assembly lines and lived well.
Now we don't.
Boo-hoo.

Today we have technology jobs.
We can be our own boss, cut deals with Chinese factories that used to only be open to global corps, mass market over the internet, innovate apps people pay big bucks for, star in our own internet TV shows, etc, etc, etc.
But people would rather bitch about not living like assembly-line schlubs.
Boo-hoo.

That's the connection.
It's all about lazy people preferring to leverage the power of government to give them what they think their parents had instead of leveraging their current advantages to achieve the lifestyle they want.

Well, robots aren't going to take our jobs away. Just as the steam engine and 19th Century technology didn't do what the luddites feared.

That's of course because there has to be a DEMAND for there to be SUPPLY.

But what has that got to do with inflation?

You see inflation and basically devaluation of one's currency is just a way to keep a uncompetitive industry competitive in the global market.

Country like West Germany kept it's inflation low, and hence it has a really competitive manufacturing base and wealthy people. Southern Europe opted for devaluation/high inflation route and they are worse of than the Germans.

[Smitty-48]

I was using minimum wage as a yardstick..

The average minimum wage in the mid 1970's was roughly $2. Inflation adjusted to 2017, that's about $9.

2017 minimum wages by state?

Alaska; $9.80

Arizona; $10

Arkansas; $8.50

California; $10.50

Colorado; $9.30

Connecticut; $10.10

Florida; $8.10

Hawaii; $9.25

Maine; $9.00

Maryland; $9.25

Massachusetts; $11

Michigan; $8.90

Missouri; $7.70

Montana; $8.15

New Jersey; $8.44

New York; $9.70

Ohio; $8.15

Oregon; $10.25

South Dakota; $8.65

Vermont; $10

Washington; $9.47

So, basically Missouri is getting screwed, everybody else is pretty much on target, inflation adjusted.

[jediuser598]

I was using minimum wage as a yardstick..

The average minimum wage in the mid 1970's was roughly $2. Inflation adjusted to 2017, that's about $9.

2017 minimum wages by state?

Alaska; $9.80

Arizona; $10

Arkansas; $8.50

California; $10.50

Colorado; $9.30

Connecticut; $10.10

Florida; $8.10

Hawaii; $9.25

Maine; $9.00

Maryland; $9.25

Massachusetts; $11

Michigan; $8.90

Missouri; $7.70

Montana; $8.15

New Jersey; $8.44

New York; $9.70

Ohio; $8.15

Oregon; $10.25

South Dakota; $8.65

Vermont; $10

Washington; $9.47

Washington minimum wage is $11.

[DBTrek]

Well, robots aren't going to take our jobs away. Just as the steam engine and 19th Century technology didn't do what the luddites feared.

That's of course because there has to be a DEMAND for there to be SUPPLY.

But what has that got to do with inflation?

You see inflation and basically devaluation of one's currency is just a way to keep a uncompetitive industry competitive in the global market.

Country like West Germany kept it's inflation low, and hence it has a really competitive manufacturing base and wealthy people. Southern Europe opted for devaluation/high inflation route and they are worse of than the Germans.

Why are you quizzing me about inflation?
All I said about it was:

• "Instead y'all are mad about inflation rates vs. wage stagnation.
  
  
  Try looking forward, not backward. You'll get further that way."

[ssu]

Most Americans, in my estimation, have very little reason to complain about not getting paid for their productivity. It's only a small group of people who are driving all this innovation and productivity gains.

Well, it's nice that true innovators today can be millionaires / billionaires thanks to the financial system. But do wages really show the productivity of one's work?

Guess lawyers are just awesome in their innovation and productivity gains.

The best wage increases for any economy is when people just below middle class get up to be middle class. They are the biggest spenders and create that so important demand. Rich people basically just invest their money. Now that's a good thing too, but isn't a driver for economic growth.

[Viktorthepirate]

Depends on the time frame...

But if we compare the 50's to now... yes, fantastically more efficient. If you got Netflix, watch "The Founder".

That's just one example. Amazon has drastically increased warehouse efficiency recently as well.

I've seen The Founder.
McDonald's brothers did all the innovation.
Ray Kroc did all the heavy planning, selling, and risked everything down to his personal home to make it work.
They got the millions.

Fry cooks are still dropping fries, and anyone in this forum could drop what they're doing right now and go take that job over if necessary.

So . . . seems like everything is in order, eh?

If you have the time, read the link above (it's actually really interesting)

If not, you have a valid point. I'm not arguing fairness or who deserves what.

I'm saying productivity has risen and wages have not.