F*** WORK

[Zlaxer]

I really just wish we could discuss issues like we did circa 2008 or so. This nonsense where people like DB derail threads with insults and lunacy whenever they lose a debate gets old. This is actually an interesting discussion to have when he's not around insulting people.

Fife & DB - Automation if Sci-Fi Star Wars black magic, i.e., NEVA GOONNA HAPPN.

STA, Zlax, Daron - Automation is coming and it's going to hit hard - Is UBI workable?

GCF, and Monty - WE'RE TAKING YOUR FUCKING YACHT HASH!

Hash - ?

Nice Round Up Zlax

My Prediction is ...................... PAIN
Modern Society will collapse under it's own weight...... See Bronze Age Collapse and Dark Ages

I kind of agree -

[jediuser598]

I really just wish we could discuss issues like we did circa 2008 or so. This nonsense where people like DB derail threads with insults and lunacy whenever they lose a debate gets old. This is actually an interesting discussion to have when he's not around insulting people.

Fife & DB - Automation if Sci-Fi Star Wars black magic, i.e., NEVA GOONNA HAPPN.

STA, Zlax, Daron - Automation is coming and it's going to hit hard - Is UBI workable?

GCF, and Monty - WE'RE TAKING YOUR FUCKING YACHT HASH!

Hash - ?

Nice Round Up Zlax

My Prediction is ...................... PAIN
Modern Society will collapse under it's own weight...... See Bronze Age Collapse and Dark Ages

By all measures we currently live in a golden age. No matter how good things are, people will always say "the world is ending."

It's this element of fiction, that there always has to be a fall. That things shouldn't remain good, because if it remains good, if the narrative doesn't go through that first door, then the story just isn't that interesting.

[DBTrek]

I agree with all those points - but, assuming arguendo that 80% of the population is rendered worthless by automation - meaning that there are no jobs of which they can perform more efficiently than a machine - what happens?

When 80% of the people can only consume resources and can no longer contribute to the survival or welfare of the tribe, what happens?
My guess is population declines.

[SuburbanFarmer]

If you read Tribe by Sebastian Junger I suspect it will open your eyes to the detrimental effects of creating a society of isolated, non-productive, people. It negatively impacts human psychology, functional social structure, empathy, and results in soaring suicide rates and mental illness.

Lots of bad juju in making human beings expensive pets of the state.
Lots of bad juju in curtailing people's ability to contribute back to their society.
Lots of bad juju in facilitating and promoting isolation.

Try never having found your tribe.

Very few people now have a tribe, and certainly none of the posters here. That makes the DCF/MHF a de-facto tribe for political misfits. You're always welcome here, you just have to brush off the crazy that you'll get hit with from time to time.

My personal IRL tribe includes the kids, and a couple of close friends. There's so much isolation in modern life, that most of us are desperate just for personal contact. That's why we spend the day shitting on each other here.

[Zlaxer]

I agree with all those points - but, assuming arguendo that 80% of the population is rendered worthless by automation - meaning that there are no jobs of which they can perform more efficiently than a machine - what happens?

When 80% of the people can only consume resources and can no longer contribute to the survival or welfare of the tribe, what happens?
My guess is population declines.

Well no shit - But, that takes a generation or two.....hopefully

I think this is going to hit much harder than you think. McCorporation will replace all front line workers with machines - competitors of McCorp. copycat them....unemployed starts to rise over 3-5 yrs....pretty soon populist poloticians are trying to pass laws limiting the amount of automation allowed - McCorp. and Co. challenge in coruts....average joe becomes ward of the state - everyone miserable.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

If you read Tribe by Sebastian Junger I suspect it will open your eyes to the detrimental effects of creating a society of isolated, non-productive, people. It negatively impacts human psychology, functional social structure, empathy, and results in soaring suicide rates and mental illness.

Lots of bad juju in making human beings expensive pets of the state.
Lots of bad juju in curtailing people's ability to contribute back to their society.
Lots of bad juju in facilitating and promoting isolation.

I'd really like to read that, but it has to work it's way up the ol' master list.

That being said, it doesn't take much to prove that isolation has a negative impact on humans. Maybe we should stop constantly reminding people who find themselves in need of government assistance how slothful, unproductive, and worthless they are. Can be rather... isolating.

[DBTrek]

I think this is going to hit much harder than you think. McCorporation will replace all front line workers with machines - competitors of McCorp. copycat them....unemployed starts to rise over 3-5 yrs....pretty soon populist poloticians are trying to pass laws limiting the amount of automation allowed - McCorp. and Co. challenge in coruts....average joe becomes ward of the state - everyone miserable.

You probably think that because you haven't considered how these corporations and retailers will be affected by the imagined mass unemployment you envision. The story always seems to go "Then EVERYONE is unemployed because EVERYTHING is automated!!!" . . . but the story never explains who is buying everything, when everyone is unemployed.

[Speaker to Animals]

Since some folks are unable or unwilling to actually offer an argument against the UBI, I can offer up one small concern:

A UBI would constitute an enormous portion of a nation's GDP. In times of distress, we need the capacity to be able to capture that kind of revenue in order to fund massive projects -- i.e. world war or an incoming asteroid. But once you implement a UBI, you can't really reduce it and pay for emergency programs without major and possibly terminal disruptions to the economy and society. Currently, our big expenditures are for the military (the DoD, IC, and the VA). But the product of those expenditures is the most powerful military in human history. We already get the defense out of it, so if the time comes, we need only start drafting people. A UBI would offer no such future capacity to deal with an emergency.

An alternative to a UBI would be to preemptively fund these kinds of programs. For instance, we could put people to work on building ships and other technology that will divert an asteroid or comet. We could put people to work to preemptively figure out how to deal with peak oil. Basically, make a list of all the high-impact potential events and put people to work mitigating them. High-impact events do not generally get solved by free markets or capitalism in any way, at all. This is because we don't really know the true probability of their occurring, and it's not immediately profitable to do anything about it. These are exactly the kinds of things the government has a legitimate role to mitigate, and if we are going to have people out of work, we might as well put them to work mitigating these events rather than just giving out the money anyway with nothing to show for it.

A few such programs we could spend money towards:

* Space colonization and asteroid deflection/mining.
* Alternative energy and mitigating peak oil.
* Mitigation of climate change effects and possible engineering solutions to the problem.


A more sophisticated program could involve curing diseases and setting up the infrastructure and capacity to manage a major pandemic.

[DBTrek]

I'd really like to read that, but it has to work it's way up the ol' master list.

That being said, it doesn't take much to prove that isolation has a negative impact on humans. Maybe we should stop constantly reminding people who find themselves in need of government assistance how slothful, unproductive, and worthless they are. Can be rather... isolating.

You think it's negative now, you should read about how tribes used to treat their able-bodied but nonproductive members.

[Zlaxer]

A few such programs we could spend money towards:

* Space colonization and asteroid deflection/mining.

Lolz - I like it - but - Get your prole ass off my planet We don't want your prole kind on Earth.