F*** WORK

[SuburbanFarmer]

I really just wish we could discuss issues like we did circa 2008 or so. This nonsense where people like DB derail threads with insults and lunacy whenever they lose a debate gets old. This is actually an interesting discussion to have when he's not around insulting people.

Fife & DB - Automation if Sci-Fi Star Wars black magic, i.e., NEVA GOONNA HAPPN.

STA, Zlax, Daron - Automation is coming and it's going to hit hard - Is UBI workable?

GCF, and Monty - WE'RE TAKING YOUR FUCKING YACHT HASH!

Hash - ?

[SuburbanFarmer]

I read this quote the other day, "you ever think about how bad we had to fuck up to create a world where robots taking all the jobs is somehow a bad thing."

I work 2 jobs, 52 hours a week, and haven't had a day off in 17 days come this Saturday. (I'll find out if it's 24 days in a row of work tomorrow.) And that's without overtime. Most people around here still think I'm of low character, communist murderer, even though I work longer, harder, and shittier jobs than they do. And here's the irony, those same people who are saying "oh work builds character, revere those that work hard, it's part of the American ethos" will shit on workers who put in such hours because they work at the lowest end jobs, at McDonalds, or the service industry.

Then I look at the economic immigration that is happening at our southern border, people who are coming to our country, just to work. These people work long hard shitty hours with much inferior pay, they don't get a say in our republic but they're exhibiting the American ideal. And yet people who are so for hard work are shitting on them as well. What's more American than hard work? I work with several of them, and as far as I'm concerned they're more American than a lot of the Americans I see around. Americanism is a set of ideals, and a lot of Americans are squatting in a country they don't deserve to be in. Just because you were born here, doesn't mean you deserve to be here.

I want a source for that quote, if possible, and I'll put it into my sig. Excellent post, sir.

[DBTrek]

Having alot of leisure time, not having to worry about starving, freezing to death in the streets, or your personal security naturally frees one up for other pursuits.

Most elites throughout history didn't have to work the field from five AM to eight PM, and had plenty of time to write great works of philosophy and law as a result. The logic that a society that has the same amount of time to spend on simply pondering life beyond the next meal, is also a society that will have a higher percentage of people able to reach the same level of power as the nobility, kings and upper classes of old. It is sound logic.

But it is not an absolute truth. After all, kings, and at least some nobles and elites worked several hours as well. Not as much as a medieval peasant, but they still worked. But there would naturally also be nobles, who simply enjoyed their arisocratic privileges and drank, fucked and partied till they died.

A welfare system that wants to tolerate or incentivize people in not trying to better themselves, is an unsustainable welfare system. UBI is welfare for everyone, without having any expectations in return. An ideal welfare state uses tax money to invest in society, to invest in people so as to make them independent of the welfare benefits. Is globalization and increased robotization (?) going to cut jobs in the future? Invest in measures that improve or retrain the skillsets of those about to lose their jobs. Or at least give tax breaks to private entities that can offer the same. Welfare means excatly that, faring well, prosperity. Not just materially speaking. Invest just as much in social workers, cultural worker and tax breaks for anyone who can help train the soon to be "redundant" workforce.

Didn't want your points to suffer from bottom-of-the-page overlook.

You've stated a truth that should be apparent (but for some reason isn't) with - "A welfare system that wants to tolerate or incentivize people in not trying to better themselves, is an unsustainable welfare system. UBI is welfare for everyone, without having any expectations in return."

Obvious, right? But apparently it bears spelling out in this forum. Hopefully others will grasp the simple truism.

Though the track record for grasping simple truths ain't exactly what I'd call stellar in the place.

[Ex-California]

Indeed.
Look at that cultural Renaissance of art and creativity exploding from Zimbabwe (unemployment 95%), American Samoa (unemployment 49.9%), and Djibouti (unemployment 60%). I mean, who could possibly argue against innovation and creativity like that, right? Obviously when people aren't working they're absolutely killing themselves to give back to society in other ways.

Can't really argue with that

[Ex-California]

No, not tv. I'm talking exclusive. You wouldn't know it was happening. Think of a human hunting reserve for the richest of the rich, you ain't on the list.

Get the idea? You ain't getting the elites on board if it's on t.v.

Not a job creator, unless it takes off nationally for the masses.

Isn't that what Medieval Times does? Never been to one, but I think they actually joust for real...

They joust for real but its all choreographed and the sticks are made to break and explode. The person who's supposed to lose jumps off his horse

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Free time is a necessary but far from sufficient condition for innovation.

As for welfare leading to social problems... well, I suspect there is some correlation/causation problems here.

[DBTrek]

If you read Tribe by Sebastian Junger I suspect it will open your eyes to the detrimental effects of creating a society of isolated, non-productive, people. It negatively impacts human psychology, functional social structure, empathy, and results in soaring suicide rates and mental illness.

Lots of bad juju in making human beings expensive pets of the state.
Lots of bad juju in curtailing people's ability to contribute back to their society.
Lots of bad juju in facilitating and promoting isolation.

[C-Mag]

I really just wish we could discuss issues like we did circa 2008 or so. This nonsense where people like DB derail threads with insults and lunacy whenever they lose a debate gets old. This is actually an interesting discussion to have when he's not around insulting people.

Fife & DB - Automation if Sci-Fi Star Wars black magic, i.e., NEVA GOONNA HAPPN.

STA, Zlax, Daron - Automation is coming and it's going to hit hard - Is UBI workable?

GCF, and Monty - WE'RE TAKING YOUR FUCKING YACHT HASH!

Hash - ?

Nice Round Up Zlax

My Prediction is ...................... PAIN
Modern Society will collapse under it's own weight...... See Bronze Age Collapse and Dark Ages

[Zlaxer]

If you read Tribe by Sebastian Junger I suspect it will open your eyes to the detrimental effects of creating a society of isolated, non-productive, people. It negatively impacts human psychology, functional social structure, empathy, and results in soaring suicide rates and mental illness.

Lots of bad juju in making human beings expensive pets of the state.
Lots of bad juju in curtailing people's ability to contribute back to their society.
Lots of bad juju in facilitating and promoting isolation.

I agree with all those points - but, assuming arguendo that 80% of the population is rendered worthless by automation - meaning that there are no jobs of which they can perform more efficiently than a machine - what happens?

[jediuser598]

If you read Tribe by Sebastian Junger I suspect it will open your eyes to the detrimental effects of creating a society of isolated, non-productive, people. It negatively impacts human psychology, functional social structure, empathy, and results in soaring suicide rates and mental illness.

Lots of bad juju in making human beings expensive pets of the state.
Lots of bad juju in curtailing people's ability to contribute back to their society.
Lots of bad juju in facilitating and promoting isolation.

Try never having found your tribe.