Meanwhile in Iraq & Syria

[Martin Hash]

Designing bombs, building bombs, exploding bombs, repeat, is the best stimulus plan out there.

[Smitty-48]

Designing bombs, building bombs, exploding bombs, repeat, is the best stimulus plan out there.

But actually fighting wars, is bad for that business, because operations are exponentially more expensive, without actually buying any product, so what happens is, the capital budget gets cut to pay for the troops, which is not stimulus, production is a profit center, but actual operations are a liability, the MIC wants production, but then don't ever use the kit, just train with it, and then replace it every decade or so, that's why the Cold War frontline in Europe was the greatest thing to ever happen to the MIC, the most military spending in the history of the world, more than WWI and WWII combined, but no actual war, the entire war was fought by industrial production, without ever firing a shot.

The biggest military cost, by far, is personnel, when you go to war, personnel costs go through the roof, and in order to pay for that, you cut R&D and production, the days of industrial wars are over, it's a "come as you are war" now, and that means that war no longer equals production, so Semi-War as Bacevich would say, a military confrontation, where you never actually fight, but just replace the hardware on scheduled interval as it is rendered "obselete", that's really where the money is, furiously preparing to fight, without ever actually fighting, as actually fighting, simply diverts costs to software and away from hardware, and human software, is not a profit center.

[doc_loliday]

Serious question. If shuffling money around is good for the economy, why does it matter where the money goes? Why does it matter if the money goes to the troops or the tanks? If a ton of stimulus for R&D is good why isn't a (a ton of stimulus)^2 for the troops even better?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Serious question. If shuffling money around is good for the country, why does it matter where the money goes? Why does it matter if the money goes to the troops or the tanks? If a ton of stimulus for R&D is good why isn't a (a ton of stimulus)^2 for the troops even better?

It doesn't matter, if you work for Lockheed. However it does, if you think that society serves more of a purpose than perpetual war. We could use that shit for new infrastructure etc.

[Smitty-48]

Serious question. If shuffling money around is good for the country, why does it matter where the money goes? Why does it matter if the money goes to the troops or the tanks? If a ton of stimulus for R&D is good why isn't a (a ton of stimulus)^2 for the troops even better?

There are models where countries would be better off spending money on troops, and those countries have massive armies, it's basically a direct jobs program, you just give people a military job, but the US economy is all about tech and industry, and 99% of Americans do not want to serve, so the jobs/stimulus program is tailored to the American paradigm, more tech, less troops, more tech jobs, less troop jobs, tech stimulus, not troop stimulus.

[skankhunt42]

Designing bombs, building bombs, exploding bombs, repeat, is the best stimulus plan out there.

But actually fighting wars, is bad for that business, because operations are exponentially more expensive, without actually buying any product, so what happens is, the capital budget gets cut to pay for the troops, which is not stimulus, production is a profit center, but actual operations are a liability, the MIC wants production, but then don't ever use the kit, just train with it, and then replace it every decade or so, that's why the Cold War frontline in Europe was the greatest thing to ever happen to the MIC, the most military spending in the history of the world, more than WWI and WWII combined, but no actual war, the entire war was fought by industrial production, without ever firing a shot.

The biggest military cost, by far, is personnel, when you go to war, personnel costs go through the roof, and in order to pay for that, you cut R&D and production, the days of industrial wars are over, it's a "come as you are war" now, and that means that war no longer equals production, so Semi-War as Bacevich would say, a military confrontation, where you never actually fight, but just replace the hardware on scheduled interval as it is rendered "obselete", that's really where the money is, furiously preparing to fight, without ever actually fighting, as actually fighting, simply diverts costs to software and away from hardware, and human software, is not a profit center.

God bless you Smitty, I told a class that today. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Martin Hash]

Serious question. If shuffling money around is good for the country, why does it matter where the money goes? Why does it matter if the money goes to the troops or the tanks? If a ton of stimulus for R&D is good why isn't a (a ton of stimulus)^2 for the troops even better?

There are models where countries would be better off spending money on troops, and those countries have massive armies, it's basically a direct jobs program, you just give people a military job, but the US economy is all about tech and industry, and 99% of Americans do not want to serve, so the jobs/stimulus program is tailored to the American paradigm, more tech, less troops, more tech jobs, less troop jobs, tech stimulus, not troop stimulus.

Nicely done. Good insight.

[Smitty-48]

The best American MIC product; is the nuclear submarine, it has it all, it's heavy industrial, but cannot be mass produced by other machines, so requires a huge industrial workforce, in many ways, submarines are actually "handmade", it's more of a craft than assembly, but at the same time, it is as technologically sophisticated as a spaceship, it is a spaceship in fact, an inner spaceship, so also requires a massive technological innovation component, with all the associated commercial spinoffs, takes a long time to build them, so it's a sustained jobs program, the design has to be constantly upgraded, because the Silent War never sleeps, so built in obselescence to the max, and operationally, it's the preeminent strategic power projector, rules the waves, which is the basis of the Empire of Liberty, and yet, it almost never actually goes to war, it just sails around preventing wars from ever breaking out in the first place; truly, the ultimate American weapon.

[skankhunt42]

The best American MIC product; is the nuclear submarine, it has it all, it's heavy industrial, but cannot be mass produced by other machines, so requires a huge industrial workforce, in many ways, submarines are actually "handmade", it's more of a craft than assembly, but at the same time, it is as technologically sophisticated as a spaceship, it is a spaceship in fact, an inner spaceship, so also requires a massive technological innovation component, with all the associated commercial spinoffs, takes a long time to build them, so it's a sustained jobs program, the design has to be constantly upgraded, because the Silent War never sleeps, so built in obselescence to the max, and operationally, it's the preeminent strategic power projector, rules the waves, which is the basis of the Empire of Liberty, and yet, it almost never actually goes to war, it just sails around preventing wars from ever breaking out in the first place; truly, the ultimate American weapon.

That's fucking poetic.

[Smitty-48]

They don't call me MC MIC for nothin', honey.