Where's an Environmentalist when you need one

[Montegriffo]

That is a very good argument for buying American, grass fed beef (or bison) that I, personally, subscribe to. It is not a particularly good argument for veganism.

You can't graze cattle on fresh grass all year round. In the winter you have to feed them with hay and other supliments such as soya. This takes up huge amounts of land and is not sustainable going forwards.

You can't graze people on grass year round neither, eh?

No but you can feed them on plants grown on the land used to grow grass or soya for cattle.
Producing meat proteins is recklessly inefficient in an overcrowded world.

[C-Mag]

If someone killed your family members and told you that it was awesome watching the life go out of their eyes would that constitute an argument or justification? If not in that case, why in this case?

The power to kill is an Awesome power. As the Apex Predator on the planet I have that power. Humans are a part of nature, we should not deny that. I am acting very naturally when I take animal life, when I utilize the animal to feed my family, when I later discuss the hunt with friends or family recalling the day, the weather, the stalking, the chase, the task of getting the animal back home. The animal is often immortalized in our stories, respected and revered.

Man is a predator, to deny that is dangerous and likely leads to those predatory instincts being taken out in other unhealthy ways in our lives.

You are making an appeal to nature, which is a fallacy.

No
Man is a predator, do you disagree ?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

You can't graze cattle on fresh grass all year round. In the winter you have to feed them with hay and other supliments such as soya. This takes up huge amounts of land and is not sustainable going forwards.

You can't graze people on grass year round neither, eh?

No but you can feed them on plants grown on the land used to grow grass or soya for cattle.
Producing meat proteins is recklessly inefficient in an overcrowded world.

Is it?

If we are worried about overcrowding, it is grain and fruit producers that seem to require labor... and cell phones, I guess, but we can get rid of those too, for all I care.

[JohnDonne]

The power to kill is an Awesome power. As the Apex Predator on the planet I have that power. Humans are a part of nature, we should not deny that. I am acting very naturally when I take animal life, when I utilize the animal to feed my family, when I later discuss the hunt with friends or family recalling the day, the weather, the stalking, the chase, the task of getting the animal back home. The animal is often immortalized in our stories, respected and revered.

Man is a predator, to deny that is dangerous and likely leads to those predatory instincts being taken out in other unhealthy ways in our lives.

You are making an appeal to nature, which is a fallacy.

No
Man is a predator, do you disagree ?

Man is also a vegan.

[Montegriffo]

You can't graze people on grass year round neither, eh?

No but you can feed them on plants grown on the land used to grow grass or soya for cattle.
Producing meat proteins is recklessly inefficient in an overcrowded world.

Is it?

Is it reckless? That's a debatable moral question.
Is it inefficient? That's an indisputable reality.

[C-Mag]

You are making an appeal to nature, which is a fallacy.

No
Man is a predator, do you disagree ?

Man is also a vegan.

Don't confuse herbivore, omnivore and carnivore for Predator, Prey or Scavenger.

Man has biofocal vision, runs fast, carries out tactics, all traits of predators. Further if you look at the definition of predation you see it describes much human activity.

1. the act of plundering or robbing; depredation.
2. predatory behavior.
3. the capture and consumption of prey

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

No but you can feed them on plants grown on the land used to grow grass or soya for cattle.
Producing meat proteins is recklessly inefficient in an overcrowded world.

Is it?

Is it reckless? That's a debatable moral question.
Is it inefficient? That's an indisputable reality.

Again, is it?
If vegetable proteins were the 'indisputable' way to maximize health, you would think natural selection would have rid us of carnivores and omnivores by now.
Clearly, you gain some efficiency by eating the hearts of your enemies.

[JohnDonne]

No
Man is a predator, do you disagree ?

Man is also a vegan.

Don't confuse herbivore, omnivore and carnivore for Predator, Prey or Scavenger.

Man has biofocal vision, runs fast, carries out tactics, all traits of predators. Further if you look at the definition of predation you see it describes much human activity.

1. the act of plundering or robbing; depredation.
2. predatory behavior.
3. the capture and consumption of prey

Sure, man is a predator, man has also been prey, man eats meat, man is vegetarian, man is war-like, man is peaceful.

I think you’re what you’re getting at is that because man has evolved descriptively as a “predator” in some narrow sense, that something normative follows, but that is the essence of the appeal to nature fallacy. They have video game hunting simulations btw

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

They have video game hunting simulations btw

Best argument against veganism I have ever heard.

If only we could so effectively simulate being human that humanity wasn't necessary, I guess...

[JohnDonne]

Funny how grass fed beef is always compared to industrial agriculture in terms of impact on critters and the environment, even though the two things aren’t equivalents in scale, it’s like comparing a local organic vegan farm to a factory farm cattle.