Where's an Environmentalist when you need one

[C-Mag]

If someone killed your family members and told you that it was awesome watching the life go out of their eyes would that constitute an argument or justification? If not in that case, why in this case?

The power to kill is an Awesome power. As the Apex Predator on the planet I have that power. Humans are a part of nature, we should not deny that. I am acting very naturally when I take animal life, when I utilize the animal to feed my family, when I later discuss the hunt with friends or family recalling the day, the weather, the stalking, the chase, the task of getting the animal back home. The animal is often immortalized in our stories, respected and revered.

Man is a predator, to deny that is dangerous and likely leads to those predatory instincts being taken out in other unhealthy ways in our lives.

[JohnDonne]

Meh. Denying the natural order of literally ALL sentient life known to exist is a little silly. You're not a plankton, or a spruce. You consume, in order to survive. Anything else is just avoidance.

You use animal product every minute of your day, whether you realize it or not.

You're making the futility fallacy and appeal to nature fallacy.

I suppose I’m appealing to nature and futility, but I dispute that they’re fallacious in this case.

You can certainly survive on a “vegan” diet for a long time, but it’s hardly sustainable for everyone to do so. And it’s pretty silly to claim that you’re not responsible for the death of animals while doing so.

My main point though is that it’s not very healthy to deny your nature. That conflict and guilt aren’t going to help you in any way. Better to accept what you are - an omnivore largely in control of all life on the planet.

It can be shown that there would be great improvement in sustainability if the vegan diet became widespread, therefore appealing to futility is obviously wrong. Also, just for clarification, I don't claim to not be responsible for the death of animals.

You say that denying my nature is unhealthy. I don't think you can define your terms. And even if you could, how would figuring out what is natural and what is unnatural help us decide what to do? It wouldn't. In short, my life is harmonious because I live by my principles, and being a vegan increases my life expectancy.

[JohnDonne]

If someone killed your family members and told you that it was awesome watching the life go out of their eyes would that constitute an argument or justification? If not in that case, why in this case?

The power to kill is an Awesome power. As the Apex Predator on the planet I have that power. Humans are a part of nature, we should not deny that. I am acting very naturally when I take animal life, when I utilize the animal to feed my family, when I later discuss the hunt with friends or family recalling the day, the weather, the stalking, the chase, the task of getting the animal back home. The animal is often immortalized in our stories, respected and revered.

Man is a predator, to deny that is dangerous and likely leads to those predatory instincts being taken out in other unhealthy ways in our lives.

You are making an appeal to nature, which is a fallacy.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

It can be shown that there would be great improvement in sustainability if the vegan diet became widespread,

Brazilian soybean producers agree. Amazon fauna might have room to gripe.

Plus, Sean Connery will never find the cure to cancer... so there is that...

[JohnDonne]

Ironic you should bring that up...

Something like 70 percent of the amazon rain forest that is destroyed each year is for cattle ranching.

In fact Brazil is the largest exporter of beef in the world.

Some other amount is also destroyed to cultivate soy. Eighty percent of amazon soy goes to animal feed.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Ironic you should bring that up...

Something like 70 percent of the amazon rain forest is destroyed for cattle ranching.

In fact Brazil is the largest exporter of beef in the world.

Some other amount is also destroyed to cultivate soy. Eighty percent of amazon soy goes to animal feed.

That is a very good argument for buying American, grass fed beef (or bison) that I, personally, subscribe to. It is not a particularly good argument for veganism.

[JohnDonne]

Ironic you should bring that up...

Something like 70 percent of the amazon rain forest is destroyed for cattle ranching.

In fact Brazil is the largest exporter of beef in the world.

Some other amount is also destroyed to cultivate soy. Eighty percent of amazon soy goes to animal feed.

That is a very good argument for buying American, grass fed beef (or bison) that I, personally, subscribe to. It is not a particularly good argument for veganism.

It’s actually just another good part of the really good argument for veganism.

[Montegriffo]

Ironic you should bring that up...

Something like 70 percent of the amazon rain forest is destroyed for cattle ranching.

In fact Brazil is the largest exporter of beef in the world.

Some other amount is also destroyed to cultivate soy. Eighty percent of amazon soy goes to animal feed.

That is a very good argument for buying American, grass fed beef (or bison) that I, personally, subscribe to. It is not a particularly good argument for veganism.

You can't graze cattle on fresh grass all year round. In the winter you have to feed them with hay and other supliments such as soya. This takes up huge amounts of land and is not sustainable going forwards.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Ironic you should bring that up...

Something like 70 percent of the amazon rain forest is destroyed for cattle ranching.

In fact Brazil is the largest exporter of beef in the world.

Some other amount is also destroyed to cultivate soy. Eighty percent of amazon soy goes to animal feed.

That is a very good argument for buying American, grass fed beef (or bison) that I, personally, subscribe to. It is not a particularly good argument for veganism.

It’s actually just another good part of the really good argument for veganism.

I am not convinced soybean proteins pack the punch per acre that grass-fed beef and bison do.

If I were vegan, I would probably hope that technology saved us from this problem, but I am a luddite, so I don't.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Ironic you should bring that up...

Something like 70 percent of the amazon rain forest is destroyed for cattle ranching.

In fact Brazil is the largest exporter of beef in the world.

Some other amount is also destroyed to cultivate soy. Eighty percent of amazon soy goes to animal feed.

That is a very good argument for buying American, grass fed beef (or bison) that I, personally, subscribe to. It is not a particularly good argument for veganism.

You can't graze cattle on fresh grass all year round. In the winter you have to feed them with hay and other supliments such as soya. This takes up huge amounts of land and is not sustainable going forwards.

You can't graze people on grass year round neither, eh?