Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Montegriffo]

However, intent is not required in law for an offence to be committed. I don't need to intend to cause an accident for me to get nicked for texting while driving, nor do I need to even cause an accident.

For the last time; when it comes to hate speech laws, intent is absolutely required. Otherwise any word or phrase that gets to be taken out of context, will constitute hate speech. For example, there's a lot of people having a Hitler-Jugend haircut today. Even british police. They don't INTEND to look like nazis, they probably don't even know its historical connotations. Is that shit illegal too? No, because their INTENTION is not to be fucking nazis.

How the fuck do you not understand this? Hate speech laws HAS to be policing intentional malicious speech, or EVERYTHING is hate speech, if anyone chooses to complain, or be offended. As someone who supports hate speech laws, you should be enraged by this, since this is not what hate speech laws are supposed to police.

Texting while driving is a straw man argument, and you know it. If not, you've officially lost all common sense and reason.

I think allowing anyone to say any horrid shit about minorities is how you end up with a fascist state.

[BjornP]

I think allowing anyone to say any horrid shit about minorities is how you end up with a fascist state.

You end up with fascist states, when you let fascists take power over the government. Bob down at the local pub making racist jokes isn't a brownshirt gathering paramilitants for a storm on Westminister, though. It's always been possible to ignore, humiliate and/or out-debate the fanatics of society. If you don't want a fascist state, don't vote for fascists. You are perfectly capable of depriving people of power by shutting them down by countering their arguments, their hatreds, their bigotry, their speech through speech of your own.

[Speaker to Animals]

You guys are assuming he refers here to actual Nazis when, in reality, he's really talking about people with better arguments than his own failed Marxist narrative.

The only actual fascists out there right now are mostly in the American Alt-Right. The European identitarian movement is not really fascist like that per se.

To people like Monty, a "Nazi" is somebody who wants to keep England composed mostly of English people.

[Okeefenokee]

You guys are assuming he refers here to actual Nazis when, in reality, he's really talking about people with better arguments than his own failed Marxist narrative.

The only actual fascists out there right now are mostly in the American Alt-Right. The European identitarian movement is not really fascist like that per se.

To people like Monty, a "Nazi" is somebody who wants to keep England composed mostly of English people.

The closest thing to actual Nazis they have are the invading Islamists who openly state their mission to purify the island.

[Fife]

[TheReal_ND]

Fæder ure þu þe eart on heofonum;

Si þin nama gehalgod

to becume þin rice

gewurþe ðin willa

on eorðan swa swa on heofonum.

urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us todæg

and forgyf us ure gyltas

swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum

and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge

ac alys us of yfele soþlice

1541
Fadher wår som äst j himblom.
Helghat warde titt nampn.
Tilkomme titt Rike.
Skee tin wilie så på jordenne som j himmelen.
Giff oss j dagh wårt daghligha brödh.
Och förlåt oss wåra skulder, såsom ock wij förlåtom them oss skyldighe äro.
Och inleedh oss icke j frestelse.
Vthan frels oss jfrå ondo.
[Ty Riket är titt, och machten och herligheten j ewigheet.
Amen.]

1703

Fader wår, som äst i himlom,
helgadt warde ditt Namn.
Tilkomme ditt rike: Ske din wilje, såsom i himmelen, så ock på jordene.
Gif oss i dag wårt dagliga bröd:
Och förlåt oss wåra skulder, såsom ock wi förlåte dem oss skyldige äro.
Och inled oss icke i frestelse;
utan fräls oss ifrån ondo.
[Ty riket är ditt, och magten, och härligheten, i ewighet:
Amen.]

1883

Fader vår, som är i himmelen!
Helgadt varde ditt namn;
ske din vilja, såsom i himmelen så ock på jorden;
vårt dagliga bröd gif oss idag;
och förlåt oss våra skulder, såsom ock vi förlåta dem oss skyldiga äro;
och inled oss icke i frestelse,
utan fräls oss ifrån ondo;
[ty riket är ditt och makten och härligheten i evighet.
Amen]

[Okeefenokee]

[Speaker to Animals]

Tributes are pouring in for a French police officer who died saving the lives of hostages in a supermarket siege by an Islamist gunman on Friday.

Lt-Col Arnaud Beltrame, 44, was shot and stabbed after he traded places with one of the captives following a shooting spree in southern France.

Flags are being flown at half-mast at gendarmerie bases across France.

His brother Cedric said Col Arnaud "didn't have a chance", adding that his actions were "beyond the call of duty".

"He gave his life for strangers. He must have known that he didn't really have a chance. If that doesn't make him a hero, I don't know what would," Col Arnaud's brother Cedric told a French radio station on Saturday.

Speaking to the BBC, Col Arnaud's cousin Florence Nicolic described the officer as a person who was "so good at his job".

"Even though we were surprised and shocked when we heard what happened we were not surprised in the sense that that's the thing he would do without hesitation," Ms Nicolic said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43525267

Col Beltrame was a highly-regarded member of the Gendarmerie Nationale and was described by France's president on Saturday as someone who "fought until the end and never gave up".

He graduated in 1999 from France's leading military academy in Saint Cyr and in 2003 became one of just a handful of candidates chosen to join the gendarmerie's elite security response group GSIGN.

He was deployed to Iraq in 2005 and was later awarded the Cross for Military Valour for his peacekeeping work. On his return to France, Col Beltrame joined the country's Republican Guard and was tasked with protecting the presidential palace.

In 2017, he was named deputy chief of the Gendarmerie Nationale in the French region of Aude, home to the medieval town of Carcassonne, where Lakdim began his deadly shooting spree on Friday.

As recently as December, Col Beltrame took part in a simulated terror attack on a local supermarket in the region.

Col Beltrame becomes the seventh member of France's security forces to be killed in such attacks since 2012.

Losing your best men for this doesn't seem worth it.

[Viktorthepirate]

I think allowing anyone to say any horrid shit about minorities is how you end up with a fascist state.

You end up with fascist states, when you let fascists take power over the government. Bob down at the local pub making racist jokes isn't a brownshirt gathering paramilitants for a storm on Westminister, though. It's always been possible to ignore, humiliate and/or out-debate the fanatics of society. If you don't want a fascist state, don't vote for fascists. You are perfectly capable of depriving people of power by shutting them down by countering their arguments, their hatreds, their bigotry, their speech through speech of your own.

Moreover when those in power get to decide what "hate speech" is it's just a matter of time before you get a totalitarian. Doesn't matter what populist wave they rode to the top, the results are the same.

[Ph64]

I think allowing anyone to say any horrid shit about minorities is how you end up with a fascist state.

You end up with fascist states, when you let fascists take power over the government. Bob down at the local pub making racist jokes isn't a brownshirt gathering paramilitants for a storm on Westminister, though. It's always been possible to ignore, humiliate and/or out-debate the fanatics of society. If you don't want a fascist state, don't vote for fascists. You are perfectly capable of depriving people of power by shutting them down by countering their arguments, their hatreds, their bigotry, their speech through speech of your own.

Moreover when those in power get to decide what "hate speech" is it's just a matter of time before you get a totalitarian. Doesn't matter what populist wave they rode to the top, the results are the same.

By their apparent current standards the 70s TV show "All in the Family" would be "grossly offensive", and Carroll O'Connor (Archie Bunker) would be convicted for his portrayal of a racist bigot. Of course the whole point of the show was cracking fun at Archie and his views, showing how "ridiculous" they were.

You're always far better off letting the "grossly offensive" views being public and using good counter arguments to show how crazy/silly those views are. The only reason you'd want to shut them down is when you really don't have any good counterargument, when facts are against you.