Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Montegriffo]

The reason is simply that the public discourse is dominated By the "If-you-are-in-any-way-against-immigration-you-are-a-racist-xenophobe" argument. And a lot of Swedes think so. Think of Swedes as being pinko-liberal über-democrats, even the conservative ones. And people haven't gone over that. And now when Trump made this little gaffe about Sweden, the leftists are going victory rounds over the issue.

Anyway, as Trump brought up Sweden, I assume that in the more general social media discourse there will be a similar interest on Sweden as there was here (or in the old DCF earlier).

I guess if your argument against immigration revolves around their reluctance to integrate and their culture being incompatible with the West and does not take into account the high levels of poverty and unemployment in the "ghettos" then you probably are xenophobic. If however you are more willing to consider all the factors involved in the rioting then a more constructive debate can be had.
By "your" I mean people in general not you specifically.....

[SuburbanFarmer]

You're.

[BjornP]

The reason is simply that the public discourse is dominated By the "If-you-are-in-any-way-against-immigration-you-are-a-racist-xenophobe" argument. And a lot of Swedes think so. Think of Swedes as being pinko-liberal über-democrats, even the conservative ones. And people haven't gone over that. And now when Trump made this little gaffe about Sweden, the leftists are going victory rounds over the issue.

Anyway, as Trump brought up Sweden, I assume that in the more general social media discourse there will be a similar interest on Sweden as there was here (or in the old DCF earlier).

I guess if your argument against immigration revolves around their reluctance to integrate and their culture being incompatible with the West and does not take into account the high levels of poverty and unemployment in the "ghettos" then you probably are xenophobic. If however you are more willing to consider all the factors involved in the rioting then a more constructive debate can be had.
By "your" I mean people in general not you specifically.....

Here's an example of the way Swedish politicians talk about immigration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arjJmqDrUUI&t=106s

(Turn on captions for English subs).

The "best" example of the discourse ssu is referencing comes at around the middle, when a Swedish "expert" and "historian" named Henrik Arnsted gets brought in on the debate panel...

[Montegriffo]

Here's an example of the way Swedish politicians talk about immigration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arjJmqDrUUI&t=106s

(Turn on captions for English subs).

The "best" example of the discourse ssu is referencing comes at around the middle, when a Swedish "expert" and "historian" named Henrik Arnsted gets brought in on the debate panel...

I don't have the bandwidth to watch that, do you have any examples in text form I could read?

[Otern]

Here's an example of the way Swedish politicians talk about immigration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arjJmqDrUUI&t=106s

(Turn on captions for English subs).

The "best" example of the discourse ssu is referencing comes at around the middle, when a Swedish "expert" and "historian" named Henrik Arnsted gets brought in on the debate panel...

I don't have the bandwidth to watch that, do you have any examples in text form I could read?

Save that link for later then.

I kind of forgot about how insane Swedish media was, this was a reminder.

[BjornP]

I don't have the bandwidth to watch that, do you have any examples in text form I could read?

None in English, no.

[Montegriffo]

I found his twitter page but as that was mostly in Swedish that was not much help either.

[Martin Hash]

I should mention that by the definitions presented here, I'm xenophobic. I wear the title proudly along with my sexist & racist titles. People got to admit who they are. Now if the Marxists would just be as honest.

[ssu]

Here's an example of the way Swedish politicians talk about immigration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arjJmqDrUUI&t=106s

(Turn on captions for English subs).

The "best" example of the discourse ssu is referencing comes at around the middle, when a Swedish "expert" and "historian" named Henrik Arnsted gets brought in on the debate panel...

Lol.

Actually it's great that we never have these kind of TV discussions between Sweden and Finland. They would just erode our otherwise good relations!

Now public discourse and media discourse about immigration policies is a non-starter. The discussion is basically worthless: the loudest whackos on both sides prevail and the media follows their vociferous attacks against each other.

What is important is that the discourse at least some level in the government and the policy level is done By calm and rational thinkers, who don't take the emotional stance and look at the situation from reality, not from an ideological viewpoint. The lack of these kind of people in the discussion will just make things more divisive.

[Hastur]

Swedish discourse has moved a lot since 2015. That debate isn't really representative any more. It was held before the huge wave of immigration that hit us just after. The pro-migrant people aren't as cocky now.

Our whole way of life is threatened. Mostly because of the costs related to immigration. The refugee immigrants don't contribute enough taxes. Our society is built on high employment rates, reasonably high wages and thereby a lot of taxes to pay for our welfare state.

The immigration that we used to have were better at getting work. Not so much anymore. The employment rate for refugees flattens out around 60% after 15 years or so. For others, including second generation immigrants, that figure is 80%. That is the level we need in order to maintain our high benefits, free education and healthcare etc. And it has to be real well paid jobs.

The arguments from the pro immigration camp is that this will work itself out when the baby boomers are retired and all those jobs need replacing but anyone with half a brain can see through that logic.

For now the flood is stopped and there is not enough support for turning on the flow any time soon. We need to work through the latest batch of immigrants and make the best of it. A lot will get sent beck with insufficient reasons for asylum.