Let's Riff on the next Tech/Social Revolution

[Speaker to Animals]

I think we have an alternative, it's the one we have right now. The one where if you bust your ass for years and years you can make something of yourself. People all around the world are trying to get here cus they know it.

It's not, though. What we have right now is a massive stealth welfare state. Americans didn't just suddenly get disabled at record numbers..


This is what we have right now:

http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

[doc_loliday]

Our economy rewards those that are educated and skilled. I support higher education for this reason precisely. There are enough jobs, but they require education and training. So, let's educate and train them. This will stimulate the economy by the multiplier effect too. If we have more and more educated people, we will see more and more new goods and services produced. This is what we want. We should stress the importance of genuine education, ambition, and hard work. Unfortunately the days where the majority of Americans could work and make good money with no education are over.

[DBTrek]

Incorrect. We already have to face the fact that automation and globalization has reduced a sizable group of Americans to the status of not being able to work. There already are not enough jobs for every America, hence the massive increase in disability and welfare enrollments.

By refusing to present your own alternative to how to deal with this, you cast your lot with the present course, which is a massive welfare state, centralization, and government coercion.

You can't just wave your hand like the problem doesn't exist. It really does exist. It's not a huge problem now, but it will continue to grow each year.

1) "Back in 2009, 12 million people were out of work. Most Americans assumed that could be fixed with 12 million new jobs. Thus, “job creation” became headline news. But then, the Bureau of Labor and Statistics quietly announced that companies were struggling to fill 2.1 million skilled positions. That statistic generated a lot of questions.

How could so many good jobs go unfilled when so many people were out of work? Why weren’t people lining up for these opportunities? Why weren’t apprenticeship programs exploding with eager applicants?" (aka over 2 million jobs available but Americans won't take them)
http://mikerowe.com/2016/02/stopignoringskillsgap/


2) The real unemployment rate is lowest since the recession
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-re ... 2017-05-05

3) The response to a hypothetical, future change in the economy is *not*, has not ever been, and should not be "Oh well, government just pays my rent and buys me food from now on I guess." Jeez, man. Have some pride. The answer remains (as it has for 8k years of recorded human history) innovate new ideas, seek or create new markets, and find new means of earning a living.

[doc_loliday]

Let's focus on getting people educated, so they can compete in the economy.

And again, the economy runs on the greed of people working who really don't want to be there. I don't think it will take much to convince them to stop trying or to not try at all.

[doc_loliday]

Not everyone has to be an engineer, tradesmen can make really good money. Somewhere along the line we decided to stop teaching kids trades, because going to college was the end all be all. We have too many social worker and not enough plumbers. What's the solution? Again, education and training.

[Speaker to Animals]

Incorrect. We already have to face the fact that automation and globalization has reduced a sizable group of Americans to the status of not being able to work. There already are not enough jobs for every America, hence the massive increase in disability and welfare enrollments.

By refusing to present your own alternative to how to deal with this, you cast your lot with the present course, which is a massive welfare state, centralization, and government coercion.

You can't just wave your hand like the problem doesn't exist. It really does exist. It's not a huge problem now, but it will continue to grow each year.

1) "Back in 2009, 12 million people were out of work. Most Americans assumed that could be fixed with 12 million new jobs. Thus, “job creation” became headline news. But then, the Bureau of Labor and Statistics quietly announced that companies were struggling to fill 2.1 million skilled positions. That statistic generated a lot of questions.

How could so many good jobs go unfilled when so many people were out of work? Why weren’t people lining up for these opportunities? Why weren’t apprenticeship programs exploding with eager applicants?" (aka over 2 million jobs available but Americans won't take them)
http://mikerowe.com/2016/02/stopignoringskillsgap/


2) The real unemployment rate is lowest since the recession
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-re ... 2017-05-05

3) The response to a hypothetical, future change in the economy is *not*, has not ever been, and should not be "Oh well, government just pays my rent and buys me food from now on I guess." Jeez, man. Have some pride. The answer remains (as it has for 8k years of recorded human history) innovate new ideas, seek or create new markets, and find new means of earning a living.

So you are reaching back to the worst recession since the Great Depression to cherry pick the worst possible unemployment rate (with the exception of 1932) to try to argue that we don't have a problem with rising unemployment?

LMFAO

And they don't count the disability claimants as "unemployed".. Maybe add the huge increase in disability and welfare recipients into your calculus, DB..

[C-Mag]

Let's focus on getting people educated, so they can compete in the economy.

And again, the economy runs on the greed of people working who really don't want to be there. I don't think it will take much to convince them to stop trying or to not try at all.

The primary problem is not Education or access to Education............... the main problem is personal drive and incentive.

[DBTrek]

So you are reaching back to the worst recession since the Great Depression to cherry pick the worst possible unemployment rate (with the exception of 1932) to try to argue that we don't have a problem with rising unemployment?

LMFAO

And they don't count the disability claimants as "unemployed".. Maybe add the huge increase in disability and welfare recipients into your calculus, DB..

/shrug

Maybe wait for generalized AI to actually exist in reality before deciding it's time for everyone to become permanent wards (and or indentured servants) of the nanny state.

Or . . you know . . . flap your arms and sqwak about your imagined SkyNet dystopia that may, one day, possibly, against all rationality, exist - and demand a lifetime government check.
Whichever strikes you as more masculine, I guess.

[doc_loliday]

Speaking of plumbers, the rates they are charge are pretty high. I just checked and the community college in my area offers 4 courses dealing with plumbing. There aren't jobs like there used to be, where you could just show up and make money, there are jobs for those that are willing to try.

But if you really want to go the engineering route, college is free if you're poor, and you could sacrifice the next 4-10 years to get that if you wanted.

[Speaker to Animals]

So you are reaching back to the worst recession since the Great Depression to cherry pick the worst possible unemployment rate (with the exception of 1932) to try to argue that we don't have a problem with rising unemployment?

LMFAO

And they don't count the disability claimants as "unemployed".. Maybe add the huge increase in disability and welfare recipients into your calculus, DB..

/shrug

Maybe wait for generalized AI to actually exist in reality before deciding it's time for everyone to become permanent wards (and or indentured servants) of the nanny state.

Or . . you know . . . flap your arms and sqwak about your imagined SkyNet dystopia that may, one day, possibly, against all rationality, exist - and demand a lifetime government check.
Whichever strikes you as more masculine, I guess.

You are flailing.

Look, I respect that you don't like the UBI idea. The problem is that we have to come with something to address this. It's not an immediate concern, but we really do need to start thinking about this.