China, A Communist Nation

User avatar
DrYouth
Posts: 4050
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Canadastan

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by DrYouth » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:08 pm

Martin Hash wrote:
DrYouth wrote:
Martin Hash wrote:People who believe in Equality-of-Results deny the word "Marxist" on technical grounds because they want the time it will take for society to assign the same negative connotations to "Progressive," or some other label, to implement their plan.
What do you mean by "Equality-of-Results?
Are your fingers broken? (Google, my son.)
So equality beyond equality of opportunity...
I think I follow.

And I would agree that this is not technically Marxism and we should avoid sloppy use of the word Marxism despite how tempting the word can be.
Deep down tho, I still thirst to kill you and eat you. Ultra Chimp can't help it.. - Smitty

User avatar
Martin Hash
Posts: 18733
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:02 pm

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by Martin Hash » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:10 pm

And your suggestion is to capitulate to The Left's tactic of avoiding the pent-up meaning of the word "Marxism" so that they travel incognito?
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

User avatar
DrYouth
Posts: 4050
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: Canadastan

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by DrYouth » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:16 pm

It's the left's tactic to not be referred to by a misleading term?

Crazy tactic...

:facepalm:
Deep down tho, I still thirst to kill you and eat you. Ultra Chimp can't help it.. - Smitty

User avatar
BjornP
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:36 am
Location: Aalborg, Denmark

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by BjornP » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:19 pm

Martin Hash wrote: The OP was about specific China-related articles that imply that China's leadership is acceptable to The World rather than rejected out-of-hand, and my supposition that if Communist China is gung-ho "Free" Trade & globalism then that's condemnation enough of both concepts.
US leadership has not made Saudi Arabia adopt democracy, and the two countries in Europe that are politically closest in terms of system, are France (in terms of presidential power) and Germany (in terms of being a federalist state). Several European countries do not enjoy the same degree of freedom of speech the US has, and in many of those cases those law date back centuries (like blasphemy laws, laws against insulting the monarch, etc.) and are unrelated to Communism.

The assumption on your part that acceptance that China will take on a greater role economically, or even surpass the economic power of the US will result in those other countries accepting the Chinese political system and ideology, is irrational. The US already does lots of business with China, and vice versa. Is that impossible without either the US adopting parts of the Chinese system of government or vice versa? Of course not. Your article indicates as much itself.

China gaining more power does not magically result in all other countries abandoning democracy, capitalism and whatever freedoms they have and adopting Chinese ideology, values and political systems. When the US dominate(d) global trade, the rest of the world didn't change their systems. Else China would be a capitalist democracy now. Capitalism wasn't introduced by the US, nor was liberal democracy, or the ideas of liberty and freedom. They had their roots in France and Britain, after all.

The US under Trump does not want international leadership, by most accounts, btw. So I don't really see why you'd assume there'd be anything to go to war about? You still have NATO leadership, btw. But ultimately you lead the world in a way that China will not be able to compete with in our lifetimes:

Culture.

China may produce goods to Europe. But it's American movies and TV that we watch, in some countries even more than national programming. Add music, pop culture, internet, gaming. America's everywhere. Not because of some political decision. But because you got popular... and China: Is not. They may get more influence, sure.... but in my country at least, they have a reputation as working borderline slave-workers to death. You don't have to like someone, nor have any reason to adopt their political systems, just because it is profitable to work with them.
Fame is not flattery. Respect is not agreement.

User avatar
Martin Hash
Posts: 18733
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:02 pm

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by Martin Hash » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:24 pm

Hash Dictionary:

Liberty - individual over group
Socialist - group over individual
Marxist - equality of outcome
Oral Illusion - using language to draw false equivalencies
Virtual Civil War - non-geographic civil war
Undercover Hack - denying ideological leanings while promoting agenda
The Left - Collectivist
The Right - militarist
Conservative - status quo
Twit - sanctimonious
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

User avatar
Martin Hash
Posts: 18733
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:02 pm

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by Martin Hash » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:28 pm

DrYouth wrote:It's the left's tactic to not be referred to by a misleading term?
Yeah, call themselves "Progressive," a term nobody knows what the hell means but its ideology is sure familiar? Now that's misleading.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change

Penner
Posts: 3350
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:00 pm

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by Penner » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:35 pm

DrYouth wrote:The world is communist leaning?

Are you trying to fire up the Marxist meme again for lulz?

China is the only communist nation... a hangover from the early 20th century experiment... and its communism is eroding from the inside...
None else is "leaning" towards communism.
The world only has Vietcong, NK, and Cuba as "pure" communist countries now. China has started embracing capitalism but is still a bit dictatorial with political issues. Although, even that is starting to crack.

As with Cuba, I would give it about 10-15 years (if Trump doesn't hit the restart button in terms of Obama thawing out relations with Cuba) before you will see the same thing that happen to China, happen to Cuba.
Image

User avatar
jbird4049
Posts: 1117
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:56 pm

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by jbird4049 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:09 pm

Penner wrote:
DrYouth wrote:The world is communist leaning?

Are you trying to fire up the Marxist meme again for lulz?

China is the only communist nation... a hangover from the early 20th century experiment... and its communism is eroding from the inside...
None else is "leaning" towards communism.
The world only has Vietcong, NK, and Cuba as "pure" communist countries now. China has started embracing capitalism but is still a bit dictatorial with political issues. Although, even that is starting to crack.

As with Cuba, I would give it about 10-15 years (if Trump doesn't hit the restart button in terms of Obama thawing out relations with Cuba) before you will see the same thing that happen to China, happen to Cuba.

Understanding that I knew more about the Vietnamese/Champa conflicts (which I last studied two decades ago :-) ) than modern Vietnam, I thought the ruling party was going towards free markets, if not exactly capitalist? Follow China's path?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Penner
Posts: 3350
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:00 pm

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by Penner » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:13 pm

jbird4049 wrote:
Penner wrote:
DrYouth wrote:The world is communist leaning?

Are you trying to fire up the Marxist meme again for lulz?

China is the only communist nation... a hangover from the early 20th century experiment... and its communism is eroding from the inside...
None else is "leaning" towards communism.
The world only has Vietcong, NK, and Cuba as "pure" communist countries now. China has started embracing capitalism but is still a bit dictatorial with political issues. Although, even that is starting to crack.

As with Cuba, I would give it about 10-15 years (if Trump doesn't hit the restart button in terms of Obama thawing out relations with Cuba) before you will see the same thing that happen to China, happen to Cuba.


Understanding that I knew more about the Vietnamese/Champa conflicts (which I last studied two decades ago:-)) than modern Vietnam, I thought the ruling party was going free market, if not exactly capitalist?
All I really know for sure is that Vietcong is like one of the only places that still is a communist country. Communism has failed and the only reason why China hasn't toppled their government (just yet) is because of the growing middle class. But that middle class is now wanting options that is making the government nervous and they have been cracking down on that as well. Maybe Vietcong is now becoming more like China (and I really don't know what is Cambodia's status as of now), where it is still a one-party communist state but is opening up to the West and Western capitalism.
Image

User avatar
Martin Hash
Posts: 18733
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:02 pm

Re: China, A Communist Nation

Post by Martin Hash » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:24 pm

Communism is the political manifestation of Marxism, which promises, through various mechanisms, equality of outcome. Those who propose Equality-Of-Outcome are Marxists, though they hide from the term like vampires from sunlight.
Shamedia, Shamdemic, Shamucation, Shamlection, Shamconomy & Shamate Change