Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[Montegriffo]

American humans are pretty much benevolent Apex Predators; I can't fully speak to other countries so I won't.

[C-Mag]

American humans are pretty much benevolent Apex Predators; I can't fully speak to other countries so I won't.

Fucking Impressive isn't it !
Hey, news flash. We still have American Bison, and probably more than European Bison.

Thanks for bringing this up. It wasn't Europeans that were directly responsible for killing all the buffalo. It was Native Americans and virgin soil epidemics.

[Speaker to Animals]

American humans are pretty much benevolent Apex Predators; I can't fully speak to other countries so I won't.

Back to my earlier point:

One of the primary reasons we did that was to genocide tribes on the great plains. That was their primary food source. If we could starve them out, we'd have a better chance of forcing them into reservations.

It's not about the animals. It's about your fellow humans.

[Montegriffo]

An estimated 20 to 30 million bison once dominated the North American landscape from the Appalachians to the Rockies, from the Gulf Coast to Alaska. Habitat loss and unregulated shooting reduced the population to just 1,091 by 1889. Today, approximately 500,000 bison live across North America.

No profit in 30 million bison roaming the great plains, got to wipe them out to grow wheat.
How much bio-diversity here?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

An estimated 20 to 30 million bison once dominated the North American landscape from the Appalachians to the Rockies, from the Gulf Coast to Alaska. Habitat loss and unregulated shooting reduced the population to just 1,091 by 1889. Today, approximately 500,000 bison live across North America.

No profit in 30 million bison roaming the great plains, got to wipe them out to grow wheat.
How much bio-diversity here?

Yup.
Carbs... make you fat, and they fuck up the planet.
Eat more bison burgers everybody. For the earth, and your soul, and to get JACKED.

[C-Mag]

Back to my earlier point:

One of the primary reasons we did that was to genocide tribes on the great plains. That was their primary food source. If we could starve them out, we'd have a better chance of forcing them into reservations.

It's not about the animals. It's about your fellow humans.

BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT

That entire myth comes from one newspaper article written 20 years after the fact about a Texas State Legislative session in which General ??? stated that killing the buffalo would destroy the Indians. Researchers have found no record of that, or anyone who said the speech happened.

The Bison were destroyed in 3 Phases

I. Virgin Soil epidemics, European bovines passed diseases on to Bison that dramatically reduced their numbers.
II. The back half of the Maunder Minimum created abnormally cold conditions in Colonial America and Europe. Colonists quickly found Bison hides to be excellent for cold weather, the premium hide was a soft supple yearly female. Native Americans readily traded European goods and guns for the young female bison hides. By doing this, the Native Americans killed so many young females the herds could never restock their populations.
III. The closeout period was after the civil war. With Bisons fate already sealed industrial hunters hunted Bison Bulls as their heavy hides were used in industrial machinery belts, the meat was seldom used, but the bones were collected later for industrial fertilizer. That's what the pics of skulls are about.

[Speaker to Animals]

It's not bullshit, Monty. The US government actually paid for it.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Wow, this thread went wild..

My thoughts:
The argument always seems to come down to morality and guilt vs speculation on consciousness and functionality/nutrition. The vegan argument places animals on a plane with humans, then emplores us to feel bad about killing them. The carnivores then retort that animals are lesser creatures, so fuck it.

For my 2 cents, it really doesn't matter how intelligent they are. This is the world that we live in. All creatures consume other creatures or plants to take in collected energy. No escaping that. We happen to be a creature that is clearly evolved for eating both. An omnivore. To deny that, is to deny biology. It makes no difference what you feel about it, your mouth and digestive system are an absolute truth. This is what the omnivores will always argue, and they will always be correct.

If animals could speak and cry like we do, we would hesitate to eat them. We would do it more humanely. But we would still do it. Because that's what we need to do to survive. If we knew for a fact that they were unconscious, and had no awareness, we might be quicker to eat and even abuse them. But we would do it.

The simple fact is that there are nowhere NEAR enough calories in edible plant life to sustain 7 billion of us. Not even close. So either we cull the human population, or we accept meat as a necessary food source. Again, no argument is possible. You can choose to do differently, but you are being less efficient as an organism.

The vegans have a valuable point to make though - that we routinely allow horrific abuse of our livestock, because it's sealed behind ag-gag laws, and we never see it. That is a travesty. We should all be intimately aware of where our food comes from, and have the option to pay up for methods that we approve of. So if you want to change that, then act politically. Stop railing against meat and human nature, and sabotaging your own cause. Seriously, it completely self-destructive.

Remove the ag-gag laws, and watch the market take over. You will see less abuse, less waste, and much more responsible methods in short order.

Don't believe me? Try finding a SeaWorld or MarineLand in a few years.

[Montegriffo]

It's not bullshit, Monty. The US government actually paid for it.

I imagine the truth is a combination of all those factors. My point was in contesting the claim that Americans were somehow more benevolant than anyone else.

[C-Mag]

It's not bullshit, Monty. The US government actually paid for it.

Negative.
Here's why you are wrong. The Buffalo Bill commercial hunting took place over a decade. To attribute the disappearance of 45 Million Bison to that decade and ignore the 300 years prior is folly.