DACA

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Are we prosecuting the child for a crime, or returning them to their country of origin per the laws of our own country?
You view our nation having rules for citizenship as a punishment to the rest of the world, apparently.

They haven't committed a crime. We aren't charging them for a crime. But we are treating them the same way we treat people who have committed a crime.

We have residents that aren't citizens. These particular residents (who aren't being prosecuted for any crime mind you, hence the term) are being relocated because their residency is the result of someone else's crime.

I am not suggesting we shouldn't have rules for citizenship. I am not arguing that they shouldn't be enforced. I am arguing that in this narrow case, the rules are inadequate.

[Okeefenokee]

We aren't talking about all illegal immigrants, or I'm not, at least.

low info joe

[apeman]

Are we prosecuting the child for a crime, or returning them to their country of origin per the laws of our own country?
You view our nation having rules for citizenship as a punishment to the rest of the world, apparently.

They haven't committed a crime. We aren't charging them for a crime. But we are treating them the same way we treat people who have committed a crime.

We have residents that aren't citizens. These particular residents (who aren't being prosecuted for any crime mind you, hence the term) are being relocated because their residency is the result of someone else's crime.

I am not suggesting we shouldn't have rules for citizenship. I am not arguing that they shouldn't be enforced. I am arguing that in this narrow case, the rules are inadequate.

Does you analysis change once the kids turn 18 and knowingly stay in the country for an average of 5 years? That part of the fact pattern needs to be addressed, no?

[BjornP]

I consider forced relocation a punishment.

If they aren't being charged with illegally crossing the border, then they aren't illegal immigrants, they are non-citizen residents, and shouldn't be treated like criminals.

If they are being charged, then they are being charged with and punished for a crime someone else committed.

I don't know how you define inherited guilt, but being punished for a crime committed by your parents seems to fit the bill.

Sending illegal immigrants back to their country of origin is not "forced relocation". Forced relocation means taking your own citizens and forcefully resettling them in a different part of your country's territory. For example the US resettlement of native American populations, or the resettlement of various ethnic groups in the USSR. Mexico is not part of the US, so you can't "relocate" anyone to Mexico.

If you are denied entry into a country, and that country's authorities puts you on a plane black to your country of origin, they're not "forcefully relocating" you. They're sending you home.

If they got caught crossing the border, and thus haven't gotten around to settling down and buying, renting a home somewhere, how are they residents? The children aren't being treated like criminals for being sent back home with their parents. That's seriously a bizarre way of thinking, Hanarchy.

[apeman]

Because the Euros are all to the right of me on this stuff, it goes to show how crazy far left the US is on these citizenship/deportation issues.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

This has been thrilling, but I honestly don't know how to explain my position in a clearer way. In fact, by some of the responses, I get the impression that people aren't disagreeing with what I am arguing, as much as they find it totally incomprehensible.

/shrug

[doc_loliday]

This has been thrilling, but I honestly don't know how to explain my position in a clearer way. In fact, by some of the responses, I get the impression that people aren't disagreeing with what I am arguing, as much as they find it totally incomprehensible.

/shrug

Why you don't understand that it is the parents as those doing the punishing is incomprehensible to me. The parents know they are breaking the law and they know they risk having their children grow up in another country only to get deported. It's simply not our job to make better parents out of all of you.

[doc_loliday]

I promise that Hanarchy will give you all a million dollars. What? He won't give you the money? He's breaking my promise! Why should you be punished for that??

Dizzying logic.

[Speaker to Animals]

Confederation time.

[doc_loliday]

I wonder what country you can go to, rob a store, give the goods to someone else and then cry when the goods are seized. Why are you punishing them? They really liked what I gave them!


Because it wasn't yours to begin with numbnuts, no matter how attached the recipient became to the stolen goods.