RIP

[heydaralon]

Zach Snyder has so many good ideas! I can't wait to see how he overuses CGI next! Maybe he'll make Frank Miller's Graphic Novel: The Virgin Neckbeard Fedora Faggot into a movie! I can't wait!

I really loved what Angelina Jolie wore to the oscars! Oprah is right! Cyberbullying is a serious problem! I follow and retweet coporate twitter pages!

[pineapplemike]

Yeah I don't like Zack Snyder either, I haven't seen any of the recent DC movies, they look terrible. His Watchmen film was reasonable, even if I think the casting was weak and he ruined everything by changing the ending.

[heydaralon]

You have probably read far more scifi than I have, but I feel like scifi is a compelling way to explore philosophical and metaphysical questions about what it means to human, the relationship between technology and society, and spiritual needs that man faces in a world where he has god like powers through science. There are plenty of scifi authors who do this well, and use the medium to explore these ideas. Phillip K Dick was great at this, as was M John Harrison and JG Ballard. I don't feel like comic books have that kind of depth though. Some of them are illustrated well, but they don't really get people to think. This is just my opinion.

But have you read any comic books? Personally I'm more drawn to books with good art than a good story, after all it's a visual medium, and I like to dabble in art, so that's me. I wouldn't ever try to compare them to a classic novel, I've read more than a few of those too, but there are plenty of comic books that dabble into the realm of the deeper metaphysical, Alan Moore's Saga of the Swamp Thing being the first that comes to mind.

In Moore's first year, Swamp Thing faced an escalating series of demonic menaces, which escalated with rescuing Abigail Cable from Hell itself. To top this, the second year's "American Gothic" storyline brought forth evil incarnate on a march that might culminate in the destruction of heaven but for an understated conversation between Swamp Thing and Evil. The final year of the run had Swamp Thing in exile, pining for his love Abby while he teleported from one world to another until, like Odysseus, he returns home.

For all of the journeys on Earth, space, and other realms, the greatest changes happen to the character of Swamp Thing. In a momentous redefinition, Moore has Swamp Thing learn that he is not the man Alec Holland transformed into something else, but is, rather, a plant creature that never was Alec Holland but that had gained his memories. Given that very unreal situation, Moore, a gifted writer, gives the creature anguish that feels real, and is more human than other DC characters even as, ironically, he finds that he has never been human at all.
http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2015/08/retr ... thing.html

The trick to comic books I think, is when the visual art helps to elevate the story beyond just the written word. Whenever there is a harmony between the writer and artist you'll see the magic happen. I'll easily admit that most comic books are trash, shovel ware shit that aren't worth the acidic paper they're printed on, it's a business just like anything else and I don't think the market is over-saturated yet (but man it's getting close), so they'll keep pumping em out (and raising the price). It's actually a really good time for comic books, Image Comics is doing better than ever by allowing the creators to have free reign over their stories and giving them the proper time to tell them, some of these guys work for years on their books. And they're good.

I don't really read much from Marvel or DC, sometimes Batman or whatever if there's a solid creative team, like I said I'm more of a fan of the artists but I'm not too old (27) to kill some time with Batman as he fucks up some evil-doers. I'm well aware of the negative stereotypes for comic book dweebs, I visit my local shop every few weeks and chat it up, and I promise most of those stereotypes are true. But it's misguided to look your nose down at all of them because the goofy nostalgic and often shallow ones are featured so predominantly in our culture. (I like the movies but I'm not too crazy about them, except for Guardians of the Galaxy which is great)

Anyway, just like anything you'll have to dig through the clutter a little bit to find the good stuff. Hellboy, Transmetropolitan, Sandman. It's out there

You know what man, I'm kind of being a dick here. I'm not artistically gifted like you, so I probably do not appreciate the medium the way you do. I read some of Watchmen when I was in high school. My frustration is not from comics themselves, but how much space they take up in our culture.

[heydaralon]

Yeah I don't like Zack Snyder either, I haven't seen any of the recent DC movies, they look terrible. His Watchmen film was reasonable, even if I think the casting was weak and he ruined everything by changing the ending.

I thought the first two Nolan batman movies were totally solid action movies, but the more comedic Marvel ones or the "darker" Snyder ones just didn't do it for me. Again, I am being dismissive and there is probably more going on beneath the surface than I am giving the creators credit for, but at work, school, and among my friends these sorts of things seem to monopolize attention. I don't get it. Since you are into visual things, you can probably appreciate the talent in the artwork more than I can. I just feel like there are enough comic books movies out there. Lets move onto something else.

[Penner]

You have probably read far more scifi than I have, but I feel like scifi is a compelling way to explore philosophical and metaphysical questions about what it means to human, the relationship between technology and society, and spiritual needs that man faces in a world where he has god like powers through science. There are plenty of scifi authors who do this well, and use the medium to explore these ideas. Phillip K Dick was great at this, as was M John Harrison and JG Ballard. I don't feel like comic books have that kind of depth though. Some of them are illustrated well, but they don't really get people to think. This is just my opinion.

But have you read any comic books? Personally I'm more drawn to books with good art than a good story, after all it's a visual medium, and I like to dabble in art, so that's me. I wouldn't ever try to compare them to a classic novel, I've read more than a few of those too, but there are plenty of comic books that dabble into the realm of the deeper metaphysical, Alan Moore's Saga of the Swamp Thing being the first that comes to mind.

In Moore's first year, Swamp Thing faced an escalating series of demonic menaces, which escalated with rescuing Abigail Cable from Hell itself. To top this, the second year's "American Gothic" storyline brought forth evil incarnate on a march that might culminate in the destruction of heaven but for an understated conversation between Swamp Thing and Evil. The final year of the run had Swamp Thing in exile, pining for his love Abby while he teleported from one world to another until, like Odysseus, he returns home.

For all of the journeys on Earth, space, and other realms, the greatest changes happen to the character of Swamp Thing. In a momentous redefinition, Moore has Swamp Thing learn that he is not the man Alec Holland transformed into something else, but is, rather, a plant creature that never was Alec Holland but that had gained his memories. Given that very unreal situation, Moore, a gifted writer, gives the creature anguish that feels real, and is more human than other DC characters even as, ironically, he finds that he has never been human at all.
http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2015/08/retr ... thing.html

The trick to comic books I think, is when the visual art helps to elevate the story beyond just the written word. Whenever there is a harmony between the writer and artist you'll see the magic happen. I'll easily admit that most comic books are trash, shovel ware shit that aren't worth the acidic paper they're printed on, it's a business just like anything else and I don't think the market is over-saturated yet (but man it's getting close), so they'll keep pumping em out (and raising the price). It's actually a really good time for comic books, Image Comics is doing better than ever by allowing the creators to have free reign over their stories and giving them the proper time to tell them, some of these guys work for years on their books. And they're good.

I don't really read much from Marvel or DC, sometimes Batman or whatever if there's a solid creative team, like I said I'm more of a fan of the artists but I'm not too old (27) to kill some time with Batman as he fucks up some evil-doers. I'm well aware of the negative stereotypes for comic book dweebs, I visit my local shop every few weeks and chat it up, and I promise most of those stereotypes are true. But it's misguided to look your nose down at all of them because the goofy nostalgic and often shallow ones are featured so predominantly in our culture. (I like the movies but I'm not too crazy about them, except for Guardians of the Galaxy which is great)

Anyway, just like anything you'll have to dig through the clutter a little bit to find the good stuff. Hellboy, Transmetropolitan, Sandman. It's out there

I think you nailed down why comic books are popular and why so many people would stick to them. I mean their visuals make them unique and if you have a shit comic book artist (cough-Rob Liefeld-cough) then the story within that comic book is affected as well. It is a highly visual medium and part of the fun is just looking at the pictures and how they are drawn.

That being said, some of the stories and/or characters can resonate with people but like you said there are a lot of shit comics. Like there are with anything else- remember Sturgeon's law (90% of everything is shit), so....

90% of sci-fi novels are shit
90% of video games are shit
90% of movies are shit
90% of TV shows are shit
90% of comic books are shit....

[heydaralon]

Yeah I don't like Zack Snyder either, I haven't seen any of the recent DC movies, they look terrible. His Watchmen film was reasonable, even if I think the casting was weak and he ruined everything by changing the ending.

A comic illustrator I am interested in is Robert Crumb. That dude wrote a comic of Phillip K Dick's Exegesis and some off the wall stuff. I'm not sure I agree with his politics, but I feel that what he is doing is very unique in that genre.

[pineapplemike]

Is Robert Crumb still alive? I'll admit I'm not that familiar with him but I do know of him, that guy is definitely one of the greats. Off the wall is one way to describe him, for sure

And I agree with you on the movies, that money machine is way out of control. Most of them are uninspired and they just keep coming.. The problem with their prominence nowadays is that the studio execs are finally catching on and the movies are starting to get better, so we're seeing more and more of them.. I have a strong distaste for how the culture has grabbed onto them too, I would love to go to San Diego comic-con, there are so many great creators and artists I would love to meet that always go there, but I would never go there. Complete insanity. I hate that comic books aren't the driving focus of SDCC anymore, this news from the other day is hopefully the final nail in that coffin: Mile High Comics is leaving the San Diego Comic-Con after 44 years

(Also in my defense from the rest of the forum I'm not that big of a comic book dweeb, I don't collect individual back issues or spend thousands for rare issues or anything like that, my collection is pretty tame to be honest. I like to support my local shop and pick up a few books a month, mostly been collecting old trade paperbacks lately, best of the best type of shit, I was super stoked to get this copy of Mike Mignola's Dracula a few days ago. Wasn't there a comic books thread around here somewhere? I should really reboot that thread)

[heydaralon]

Is Robert Crumb still alive? I'll admit I'm not that familiar with him but I do know of him, that guy is definitely one of the greats. Off the wall is one way to describe him, for sure

And I agree with you on the movies, that money machine is way out of control. Most of them are uninspired and they just keep coming.. The problem with their prominence nowadays is that the studio execs are finally catching on and the movies are starting to get better, so we're seeing more and more of them.. I have a strong distaste for how the culture has grabbed onto them too, I would love to go to San Diego comic-con, there are so many great creators and artists I would love to meet that always go there, but I would never go there. Complete insanity. I hate that comic books aren't the driving focus of SDCC anymore, this news from the other day is hopefully the final nail in that coffin: Mile High Comics is leaving the San Diego Comic-Con after 44 years

(Also in my defense from the rest of the forum I'm not that big of a comic book dweeb, I don't collect individual back issues or spend thousands for rare issues or anything like that, my collection is pretty tame to be honest. I like to support my local shop and pick up a few books a month, mostly been collecting old trade paperbacks lately, best of the best type of shit, I was super stoked to get this copy of Mike Mignola's Dracula a few days ago. Wasn't there a comic books thread around here somewhere? I should really reboot that thread)

Everyone on here is into nerdy stuff in one way or another. I have all these books on history and shit around my house that I can discuss with zero people outside of this forum. Its gotten out of hand, and sometimes I worry that I am borderline assburgers with these books that have no practical application in real life. My friend is really into video games and thats pretty much all we do when I hang out with him. One of my other friends and his wife are weirdly obsessed with disney, as is my gf, so I guess everyone has their nerdy hobbies. I'm just tired of the reboots. It wouldn't be so bad if they only made like one comic book movie per year, but its everywhere. This is like the fourth time they've remade spiderman in like 12 years. There have been 2 hulk reboots, 2 superman ones, and 2 or 3 different batman ones since I went through puberty lol. It sounds you are getting tired of it too. Whats worse is that many movies coming out, like Black Panther are starting to tap into the SJW angst, so thats a whole nother potential cashcow for Hollywood.

Crumb is still alive. Not sure what he is working on now.

[SuburbanFarmer]

The reboot fad is the worst part of this. They've got 50-80 years of material, yet they need to tell me AGAIN that Batmans parents died and he's sad about it.

[heydaralon]

The reboot fad is the worst part of this. They've got 50-80 years of material, yet they need to tell me AGAIN that Batmans parents died and he's sad about it.

In the next spiderman movie they are going to have a different guy play uncle ben AND the actor who plays spiderman will have different hair! I can't wait to see this re-telling!