The current crop of left wing debaters is weak

[Smitty-48]

The tension between the revolutionary and the bourgeois is not poor v. rich, the bourgeoisie are simply those who are not prepared to kill and die for a cause, and in failing to do so, prop up the Ancien Regime by default, they could be wealthy, the could be poor, the issue for the revolutionary is simply that they are inherently counterevolutionary by their very nature, to wit, the weak link, in the chain of socialism, socialism merely being a transitional state, on the path to the post scarcity utopia of Communism, someday.

Whats even weirder about this whole idea is that many leftists fundamentally agree that Communism is the final state, but they were willing to kill each other based on their means of getting to that final end. Some marxists thought that communism was best left to happen organically, and eventually, possibly over centuries, the proles would realize that they were being conned and overthrow the oligarchs. No vanguard revolutionaries needed. Of course, others like Lenin, were sickened by this kind of fatalism and felt that they needed to enact the change that led to the revolution. Today, many Islamic terror groups have similar strategic debates. It is absolutely crazy how much AQ and ISIS ripped off from heathen atheist western Marxists. I'm sure they'd hate to hear it, but it is extremely ironic. Even the west's enemies drink from the same ideological well.

Indeed, but the revolution never springs from the poor, the whole poor rising up to overthrow the 1% or whatever blather is just so much nonsense, the Jacobins were not poor, Lenin was never poor, he was upper middle class borderline wealthy by Russian standards, he was simply radicalized by his revolutonary brother's execution for conspiring to assassinate the Czar in 1897.

[heydaralon]

The tension between the revolutionary and the bourgeois is not poor v. rich, the bourgeoisie are simply those who are not prepared to kill and die for a cause, and in failing to do so, prop up the Ancien Regime by default, they could be wealthy, the could be poor, the issue for the revolutionary is simply that they are inherently counterevolutionary by their very nature, to wit, the weak link, in the chain of socialism, socialism merely being a transitional state, on the path to the post scarcity utopia of Communism, someday.

Whats even weirder about this whole idea is that many leftists fundamentally agree that Communism is the final state, but they were willing to kill each other based on their means of getting to that final end. Some marxists thought that communism was best left to happen organically, and eventually, possibly over centuries, the proles would realize that they were being conned and overthrow the oligarchs. No vanguard revolutionaries needed. Of course, others like Lenin, were sickened by this kind of fatalism and felt that they needed to enact the change that led to the revolution. Today, many Islamic terror groups have similar strategic debates. It is absolutely crazy how much AQ and ISIS ripped off from heathen atheist western Marxists. I'm sure they'd hate to hear it, but it is extremely ironic. Even the west's enemies drink from the same ideological well.

Indeed, but the revolution never springs from the poor, the whole poor rising up to overthrow the 1% or whatever is just so much nonsense, the Jacobins were not poor, Lenin was never poor, he was upper middle class borderline wealthy by Russian standards, he was simply radicalized by his revolutonary brother's execution for conspiring to assaisinate the Czar in 1897.

Castro's dad was a wealthy sugar cane planter, Che was a doctor, Ayman Al Zawahiri was a surgeon. These dudes are about proletariat as Daddy Warbucks

[Smitty-48]

It's the upper middle class borderline wealthy academic elites you have to watch, they are the ones who incite the students to be the vanguard, the students in turn incite the working classes, this is why you should round up the professors first and foremost, before you unleash the grapeshot on their proxies in the streets, eh? wot? Indeed.

It's not the 1%, it's the 20%, and those who inveigh against the Ancien Regime, are in fact right in the ranks of it all along, seeking power for themselves, on the backs of the working classes as mere pawns.

God save the Queen. And for the Jacobins and Bolsheviks? The yardarm, sir.

[Martin Hash]

It seems like a bunch of leftist do understand that though. The black panthers were armed to the teeth. The Weatherman used violence as did Baader Meinhoff and RAF. A lot of leftists are using weapons at protests too. And of course, the most successful Leftists Mao and Lenin were keen on using guns.

There are 100 million guns waiting for Leftists to open fire.

Calling for political civil war, Marty? You've been spending too much time here.

Dude, have you looked at the URL?

p.s. I don't own a gun.

[heydaralon]

There are 100 million guns waiting for Leftists to open fire.

Calling for political civil war, Marty? You've been spending too much time here.

Dude, have you looked at the URL?

p.s. I don't own a gun.

Are you really 59? I thought you were younger for some reason

[Smitty-48]

Technically, the Second Amendment is inherently revolutionary, and the associated purpose of the Well Regulated Militia, would be to stave off a counterrevolution.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

When the People's Revolution comes, I'll do my best to make sure those of you who I like aren't first against the wall.

[Okeefenokee]

It's the upper middle class borderline wealthy academic elites you have to watch, they are the ones who incite the students to be the vanguard, the students in turn incite the working classes, this is why you should round up the professors first and foremost, before you unleash the grapeshot on their proxies in the streets, eh? wot? Indeed.

It's not the 1%, it's the 20%, and those who inveigh against the Ancien Regime, are in fact right in the ranks of it all along, seeking power for themselves, on the backs of the working classes as mere pawns.

God save the Queen. And for the Jacobins and Bolsheviks? The yardarm, sir.

post it, martin.

[Okeefenokee]

When the People's Revolution comes, I'll do my best to make sure those of you who I like aren't first against the wall.

how in hell do you imagine a revolution coming from the left when the entire world is being bent by the left?

the pendulum swing is coming right at you.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

When the People's Revolution comes, I'll do my best to make sure those of you who I like aren't first against the wall.

how in hell do you imagine a revolution coming from the left when the entire world is being bent by the left?

the pendulum swing is coming right at you.

Okay fine... when the Sturmabteilung comes kicking down my door, I hope Nuke remembers the good times on the MHF and cuts me some slack.

The song is cool though, Rzewski was an odd duck.