Earth matters

[apeman]

Seems like you would have to arrange the giraffe's head/neck like that after you kill it to get that pic

[Speaker to Animals]

Is she wearing vans in the African wilds?

[Montegriffo]

Too soon ?

How awful do you have to be to poach giraffes? Disgusting.

I don't know but you would need a bloody great saucepan and a lot of water for that one.

[Otern]

Look if you can just pretend I'm not a complete fucking idiot for a minute we can have a much more useful conversation about this. You are clearly well informed but if you want to teach it's best not to talk down to the class or they will just start messing about and stop listening to you. Come on I know you are better than this.

Didn't mean to talk down or anything. And I don't think you're a complete fucking idiot.

Would the world be better off if we ate LESS meat? Sure. But it also matters how the meat was produced, and what kind of meat. And the criteria for what is environmentally friendly is different for each country of the world.

As an example, pig and chicken is hailed by environmentalists in Norway for being environmentally friendly. And it's as wrong as it can be. Their calculations is based on the caloric intake of the pigs and the chickens, compared to cows and sheep, and the caloric result of the meat of these animals. And the worst method, is based on weight intake of the animals, and the weight output. At the first glance, it looks like pigs and chicken are better, as they need less calories than the cows and the sheep, to get the same amount of meat. Simple maths.

BUT; pigs and chickens here rely almost solely on imported concentrates as a food source. These food sources are grown in high quality soil, where there's also the possibility to grow crops for human consumption (soy from the gutted rain forests of Brazil is an important source). Cows eat some concentrates (actually quite a lot), but they also eat grass that grows in areas where there's no real possibility to grow wheat. Sheep eat almost no concentrates. Just grass, and most of that grass, trees and bushes, they graze in areas where we couldn't even grow potatoes. And while they require a lot more area than other animals, these areas are mainly useless for human food.

Really, if you want to save the environment, you can do a LOT as a chef. Especially in Scotland.(Scotland has some of the same geographical/soil fertility challenges as Norway). Just make delicious sheep dishes. Make sheep meat more popular than cows, pigs and chicken, and you've done a lot more for the environment than Greenpeace ever could.
Try this Christmas dish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinnekjøtt
The methane gas, and the predator conflicts are the only downsides (and you guys don't even have those predators). All agricultural products have downsides, but hell, we've got to eat something.

There's really no reason to stop eating meat as a whole, other than "animals are persons". But there's lots of reasons to look into how the meat is produced. If you're having bad conscience for eating haggis, just stop feeling bad.

[Montegriffo]

Look if you can just pretend I'm not a complete fucking idiot for a minute we can have a much more useful conversation about this. You are clearly well informed but if you want to teach it's best not to talk down to the class or they will just start messing about and stop listening to you. Come on I know you are better than this.

Didn't mean to talk down or anything. And I don't think you're a complete fucking idiot.

Would the world be better off if we ate LESS meat? Sure. But it also matters how the meat was produced, and what kind of meat. And the criteria for what is environmentally friendly is different for each country of the world.

As an example, pig and chicken is hailed by environmentalists in Norway for being environmentally friendly. And it's as wrong as it can be. Their calculations is based on the caloric intake of the pigs and the chickens, compared to cows and sheep, and the caloric result of the meat of these animals. And the worst method, is based on weight intake of the animals, and the weight output. At the first glance, it looks like pigs and chicken are better, as they need less calories than the cows and the sheep, to get the same amount of meat. Simple maths.

BUT; pigs and chickens here rely almost solely on imported concentrates as a food source. These food sources are grown in high quality soil, where there's also the possibility to grow crops for human consumption (soy from the gutted rain forests of Brazil is an important source). Cows eat some concentrates (actually quite a lot), but they also eat grass that grows in areas where there's no real possibility to grow wheat. Sheep eat almost no concentrates. Just grass, and most of that grass, trees and bushes, they graze in areas where we couldn't even grow potatoes. And while they require a lot more area than other animals, these areas are mainly useless for human food.

Really, if you want to save the environment, you can do a LOT as a chef. Especially in Scotland.(Scotland has some of the same geographical/soil fertility challenges as Norway). Just make delicious sheep dishes. Make sheep meat more popular than cows, pigs and chicken, and you've done a lot more for the environment than Greenpeace ever could.
Try this Christmas dish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinnekjøtt
The methane gas, and the predator conflicts are the only downsides (and you guys don't even have those predators). All agricultural products have downsides, but hell, we've got to eat something.

There's really no reason to stop eating meat as a whole, other than "animals are persons". But there's lots of reasons to look into how the meat is produced. If you're having bad conscience for eating haggis, just stop feeling bad.

Agreed, there is a lot of talk about eating burgers made from insects in the future as the input per gram of protein is far less than any other meat.
I do cook meat for others and even taste the sauces to make sure the seasoning is correct. I am pushing quite hard for the culling and eating of those imported deer varieties I mentioned earlier. I am happiest when serving wild game particularly when they are a pest species like rabbit (not strictly game but you know what I mean) People have almost completely stopped eating rabbits over here now and when posh restaurants use them they import fat farmed ones from France. I'd love to get people into eating Grey squirrels too but nobody can be bothered to trap them for the measly amount of meat you get on them.


Sorry for triggering you on whales earlier, I guess they were the poster boys for Greenpeace and the likes 30 years ago when we nearly pushed them over the top to extinction. I still like Greenpeace though and sinking the Rainbow warrior was a dirty fucking trick by French special forces in New Zealand which nearly had me forming a fleet to attack the old enemy. A man died too and as far as I know no one was ever prosecuted.

[SuburbanFarmer]

You should all be vegetarian if we want to save the planet anyway.

Also wrong. You can raise sheep in areas where you can't grow vegetables. So it's perfectly possible to eat meat in a planet friendly way.

Sheep hurts the environment less than broccoli. (When you do the calculations with regards to calories, rather than weight).

NPR did a story this morning about how the Mongolian grasslands are completely devastated by sheep herding for Cashmere.

Well, you could be awfully hungry. Probably most giraffe poachers do so for food.

She does look quite underfed. Perhaps that gun was a donation.

[Otern]

NPR did a story this morning about how the Mongolian grasslands are completely devastated by sheep herding for Cashmere.

Goats.

Also, overgrazing is the problem here. (And maybe climate change too).

The free market is also to blame, as the Chinese can buy cheap cashmere from Mongolia, creating an economic short term benefit to overgraze.

I'm just guessing here, but Mongolia does not have that much wind cover, and having too many goats around, will tear down the vegetation so much there won't be enough bushes, trees, and tall grass, meaning wind can contribute a lot more to soil erosion, turning it into a desert in the long run.

Goats are great though, wish we had more of them, as we have the opposite problem, with too much reforestation. But they're more labor intensive than sheep.

[SuburbanFarmer]

NPR did a story this morning about how the Mongolian grasslands are completely devastated by sheep herding for Cashmere.

Goats.

Also, overgrazing is the problem here. (And maybe climate change too).

The free market is also to blame, as the Chinese can buy cheap cashmere from Mongolia, creating an economic short term benefit to overgraze.

I'm just guessing here, but Mongolia does not have that much wind cover, and having too many goats around, will tear down the vegetation so much there won't be enough bushes, trees, and tall grass, meaning wind can contribute a lot more to soil erosion, turning it into a desert in the long run.

Goats are great though, wish we had more of them, as we have the opposite problem, with too much reforestation. But they're more labor intensive than sheep.

Well hop on your fucking longships and go fetch a load of goats from Mongolia then. Earth is saved.

[Montegriffo]

I like goats too but it is argued that they helped turn parts of the Sahara into desert wasteland with their overgrazing.

[SuburbanFarmer]

I like goats too but it is argued that they helped turn parts of the Sahara into desert wasteland with their overgrazing.

Apparently, Otern can't be bothered to mow his grass anymore, and there's an oversupply in Mongolia. Case is closed.

The alternative would be to just exterminate goats. I'm not totally against that.