Minimum Wage Sucks Because

[Okeefenokee]

What makes that quip especially good is that it's true.

It's really quite amazing to me that people can live in America today, only to look at the tiny fraction of humanity that has it better than them and complain.

You can live on a fixed income and you are living better than most aristocracy in all of human history. You already will live better than most people alive today.

But because they can't have even more they think the world is against them. If they would just look at it objectively, they'd see our "plutocracy" is downright beneficent as such things go.

I am not saying we shouldn't always look to improve things for the most people. We obviously should. But we shouldn't do so from a position where we bemoan our condition. That's just pathetic.

Compared to Medieval Europe? Absolutely. Compared to the ancients? Not so much. How about Europe and the rest of the developed world? Nope.

Nobody would complain that Americans in general are poor, that's just idiocy. But to ignore the fact that our society has the highest wealth inequality since Feudalism is equally stupifying.

Then just fucking off yourself. If it's so onerous that someone else who has worked harder than you, and is more capable than you, has more than you, just fucking end it then.

Your emo-teen bitching is fucking sad.

[Speaker to Animals]

It's really quite amazing to me that people can live in America today, only to look at the tiny fraction of humanity that has it better than them and complain.

You can live on a fixed income and you are living better than most aristocracy in all of human history. You already will live better than most people alive today.

But because they can't have even more they think the world is against them. If they would just look at it objectively, they'd see our "plutocracy" is downright beneficent as such things go.

I am not saying we shouldn't always look to improve things for the most people. We obviously should. But we shouldn't do so from a position where we bemoan our condition. That's just pathetic.

Compared to Medieval Europe? Absolutely. Compared to the ancients? Not so much. How about Europe and the rest of the developed world? Nope.

Nobody would complain that Americans in general are poor, that's just idiocy. But to ignore the fact that our society has the highest wealth inequality since Feudalism is equally stupifying.

Then just fucking off yourself. If it's so onerous that someone else who has worked harder than you, and is more capable than you, has more than you, just fucking end it then.

Your emo-teen bitching is fucking sad.

Where did I say it was "onerous that somebody worked harder than me, is more capable than me, has more than me, blah blah blah"?

Like I said: no argument.

You can't win a debate unless you bring an argument, and thus far, the anti-UBI crowd has brought nothing but insults.


I am perfectly wiling to change my mind. Bring an argument and convince me. Attacking me and insulting me only convinces me that you are wrong and have no coherent argument or alternative whatsoever.

[Okeefenokee]

Dude, wealth inequality is not a bad thing. Wealth inequality usually means things are getting better. People who can innovate are doing so, getting rewarded, and everybody else gets to share in the benefit of those innovations.

Steve Jobs became rich as fuck for inventing the iPhone. He made far more than any of us ever will. Are you pissed because he made more money and not happy that you have a fucking smartphone??

Not at all. Steve Jobs actually created something, and that's great. Same with Bezos, Zuckerberg, and anyone else that actually created a product and business.

Do you actually think the 1% is made up of innovators?

What was that line about cargo cult mentality?

[TheReal_ND]

Implying crony capitalism is about working hard lmao

[Okeefenokee]

Back to how this is related to the UBI hooey: When we subsidize consumption, and penalize production (or innovations if you prefer), guess which way the respective needles will go.

Except that AI is a game changing event that will break the model you are basing your position on. UBI would foster tons of consumption for sure - but the machines would be the slaves.....and the machines, assuming they're not strong AIs, don't care about being slaves.....

If automation comes to full fruition - the questions becomes one of resource distribution and population management. UBI, IMHO, preserves the most independence for the individual in such a system - the state doesn't get to decide how you spend your resources....its just decides what the minimum you get is. The problem is, how to keep the drive to innovate with taxation would be severe to support UBI. But if people tend to naturally create things when they have leisure time, perhaps such a system could work. Problem is - how to mitigate the problems of centralized government....

^^^ 99.44 % pure Marxism.

Do some thinking on this, man. The end goal of human life is not leisure.

Industrialization is nearing the end of its course. We sacrificed the yeoman for factory workers. Now the yeoman can go back to the farms with kick ass tractors, wifi, and amazon drone delivery. You just gotta get up and tend to the homestead. Drudgery, I know.

[DBTrek]

I guess if you think throwing childish invective whenever you lose an argument is a great idea, then you'd love DB's "performance" in this thread. But if you like actual arguments, then no, he lost this one (several UBI threads ago, in fact).

None of you offered a single coherent argument to address the points made in support of a future UBI.

This is what DB does when he knows he lost the debate. He starts insulting people instead of formulate a new counterargument or just admit he doesn't have a decent response. He's like that kid who tosses the Monopoly board across the room when he goes bankrupt.

It's silly that anybody would think this is somehow "kickin' ass". For a self-professed genius, you sure don't like logical arguments much, I guess.

I'd challenge you guys to post a coherent and polite argument in response to what Daralon and Hanarchy wrote, but I remain quite certain all of you have nothing to offer. It's just insults from here on out because you lost. Debate goes to Daralon and Hanarchy.

. . . . says the guy who retreated into a hypothetical fantasyland when I brought my arguments the last time it was discussed.

"Oh, well in a world without scarcity . . . "
"Well . . . I NEVER said we had strong AI right now . . ."
"Obviously it's going to be decades before we see anything happen . .. "

STFU already.
Your ass was handed to you long ago and trying to rewrite the past here isn't going to spare you the shame.

[Speaker to Animals]

I guess if you think throwing childish invective whenever you lose an argument is a great idea, then you'd love DB's "performance" in this thread. But if you like actual arguments, then no, he lost this one (several UBI threads ago, in fact).

None of you offered a single coherent argument to address the points made in support of a future UBI.

This is what DB does when he knows he lost the debate. He starts insulting people instead of formulate a new counterargument or just admit he doesn't have a decent response. He's like that kid who tosses the Monopoly board across the room when he goes bankrupt.

It's silly that anybody would think this is somehow "kickin' ass". For a self-professed genius, you sure don't like logical arguments much, I guess.

I'd challenge you guys to post a coherent and polite argument in response to what Daralon and Hanarchy wrote, but I remain quite certain all of you have nothing to offer. It's just insults from here on out because you lost. Debate goes to Daralon and Hanarchy.

. . . . says the guy who retreated into a hypothetical fantasyland when I brought my arguments the last time it was discussed.

"Oh, well in a world without scarcity . . . "
"Well . . . I NEVER said we had strong AI right now . . ."
"Obviously it's going to be decades before we see anything happen . .. "

STFU already.
Your ass was handed to you long ago and trying to rewrite the past here isn't going to spare you the shame.

What are you even talking about?


Bring an argument. That's all I ask. I am willing to change my mind if you convince me. The only thing you convinced me of is that you are an asshole when you lose a debate.

[DBTrek]

An argument against what?
Implementing an unsustainable welfare system based on non-materialized and largely imaginative fears?

What kind of quack request is that?

[TheReal_ND]

A lot of people are convinced the future will be fully automated. I'm not convinced it won't be fully African and mestizo.

[Speaker to Animals]

An argument against what?
Implementing an unsustainable welfare system based on non-materialized and largely imaginative fears?

What kind of quack request is that?

Straw man and another insult.

You obviously lost the debate.

Thanks. If anybody wants to argue against it, I am all ears. This weak shit is really boring and tiresome. Have a great time, DB. I am more interested in people with ideas. Thanks, anyway.