F*** WORK

[Speaker to Animals]

Let's back this up. Please explain to us why we should consider the political opinions of a man who balks at the idea of paying the costs of his own politics?

I think that's a valid question. If you are not willing to give up your own livelihood for illegal immigrants, then why should take seriously your talk of making other American suffer in that way for your benefit? It seems to me that people advocating for open borders as you do should be first in line for a total loss of economic opportunities. You are the ones who should pay for the costs first, no?

People like you are a cancer. Hypocrites are reviled by all human cultures for a reason.

I'm with you in opposing H1-B and overstayed visas. We differ on throwing a fit about Jose hiking over a desert to work for $3/hr doing shit work that you'd never even consider.

He is not hurting you, or anyone else. If you want that job, you'll find no shortage of farmers willing to hire Americans to do it.

I also oppose SSN fraud, which would enable him to get benefits. Fortunately for both of us, that's already illegal.

So you want to limit the ability for immigrants to come here that could take your tech job, but you want to encourage unskilled labor to come here and take jobs from the working class.

Which brings me back to the original point: you should be willing to pay the costs of your own politics. If you advocate for destroying the economic opportunities of Americans, then you should be willing to become first in line. Instead, you oppose H1B visas. You want yours and you don't care about your fellow countrymen, especially when it benefits you for them to be ruined.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Let's back this up. Please explain to us why we should consider the political opinions of a man who balks at the idea of paying the costs of his own politics?

I think that's a valid question. If you are not willing to give up your own livelihood for illegal immigrants, then why should take seriously your talk of making other American suffer in that way for your benefit? It seems to me that people advocating for open borders as you do should be first in line for a total loss of economic opportunities. You are the ones who should pay for the costs first, no?

People like you are a cancer. Hypocrites are reviled by all human cultures for a reason.

I'm with you in opposing H1-B and overstayed visas. We differ on throwing a fit about Jose hiking over a desert to work for $3/hr doing shit work that you'd never even consider.

He is not hurting you, or anyone else. If you want that job, you'll find no shortage of farmers willing to hire Americans to do it.

I also oppose SSN fraud, which would enable him to get benefits. Fortunately for both of us, that's already illegal.

So you want to limit the ability for immigrants to come here that could take your tech job, but you want to encourage unskilled labor to come here and take jobs from the working class.

Which brings me back to the original point: you should be willing to pay the costs of your own politics. If you advocate for destroying the economic opportunities of Americans, then you should be willing to become first in line. Instead, you oppose H1B visas. You want yours and you don't care about your fellow countrymen, especially when it benefits you for them to be ruined.

Once again, they aren't taking jobs from anyone. You can go pick fruit to your heart's content, but you won't. You'll sit there in your trailer, ignoring your sobbing wife, and tell yourself that Jose took that really sweet 30th factory gig that you totally could have done for another $.50/hr. That would have fixed everything, and it's all those goddamn liberal traitors that took it from you.

[Speaker to Animals]

They absolutely are taking jobs from Americans. From farms to construction work to landscaping. They are taking jobs.

[jediuser598]

I'm with you in opposing H1-B and overstayed visas. We differ on throwing a fit about Jose hiking over a desert to work for $3/hr doing shit work that you'd never even consider.

He is not hurting you, or anyone else. If you want that job, you'll find no shortage of farmers willing to hire Americans to do it.

I also oppose SSN fraud, which would enable him to get benefits. Fortunately for both of us, that's already illegal.

So you want to limit the ability for immigrants to come here that could take your tech job, but you want to encourage unskilled labor to come here and take jobs from the working class.

Which brings me back to the original point: you should be willing to pay the costs of your own politics. If you advocate for destroying the economic opportunities of Americans, then you should be willing to become first in line. Instead, you oppose H1B visas. You want yours and you don't care about your fellow countrymen, especially when it benefits you for them to be ruined.

Once again, they aren't taking jobs from anyone. You can go pick fruit to your heart's content, but you won't. You'll sit there in your trailer, ignoring your sobbing wife, and tell yourself that Jose took that really sweet 30th factory gig that you totally could have done for another $.50/hr. That would have fixed everything, and it's all those goddamn liberal traitors that took it from you.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... obs-214216

Both low- and high-skilled natives are affected by the influx of immigrants. But because a disproportionate percentage of immigrants have few skills, it is low-skilled American workers, including many blacks and Hispanics, who have suffered most from this wage dip. The monetary loss is sizable. The typical high school dropout earns about $25,000 annually. According to census data, immigrants admitted in the past two decades lacking a high school diploma have increased the size of the low-skilled workforce by roughly 25 percent. As a result, the earnings of this particularly vulnerable group dropped by between $800 and $1,500 each year.

We don’t need to rely on complex statistical calculations to see the harm being done to some workers. Simply look at how employers have reacted. A decade ago, Crider Inc., a chicken processing plant in Georgia, was raided by immigration agents, and 75 percent of its workforce vanished over a single weekend. Shortly after, Crider placed an ad in the local newspaper announcing job openings at higher wages. Similarly, the flood of recent news reports on abuse of the H-1B visa program shows that firms will quickly dismiss their current tech workforce when they find cheaper immigrant workers.

It's not the whole story, but immigration does drive down wages. They are taking jobs away.

[DBTrek]

So you want to limit the ability for immigrants to come here that could take your tech job, but you want to encourage unskilled labor to come here and take jobs from the working class.

Which brings me back to the original point: you should be willing to pay the costs of your own politics. If you advocate for destroying the economic opportunities of Americans, then you should be willing to become first in line. Instead, you oppose H1B visas. You want yours and you don't care about your fellow countrymen, especially when it benefits you for them to be ruined.

See . . . when he drops all the crazy genocide talk he actually pins you down GCF. You *are* ok with unskilled American labor getting the shaft, and totally *not* ok with skilled labor like yourself getting the shaft. That's a bit myopic and self-centered, wouldn't you say? Why should the American HS dropout have their employment opportunities filled by millions of non-citizens, while your profession is protected from the same?

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-Ben Franklin

[SuburbanFarmer]

So you want to limit the ability for immigrants to come here that could take your tech job, but you want to encourage unskilled labor to come here and take jobs from the working class.

Which brings me back to the original point: you should be willing to pay the costs of your own politics. If you advocate for destroying the economic opportunities of Americans, then you should be willing to become first in line. Instead, you oppose H1B visas. You want yours and you don't care about your fellow countrymen, especially when it benefits you for them to be ruined.

See . . . when he drops all the crazy genocide talk he actually pins you down GCF. You *are* ok with unskilled American labor getting the shaft, and totally *not* ok with skilled labor like yourself getting the shaft. That's a bit myopic and self-centered, wouldn't you say? Why should the American HS dropout have their employment opportunities filled by millions of non-citizens, while your profession is protected from the same?

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-Ben Franklin

I have no problem with letting ICE agents take illegals out of the country. But it is a non-issue for me. Pretending that that's some sort of massive cultural issue, and America is about to implode because some bottom-tier shitty jobs are taken is ridiculous. I did oppose trying to deport millions of them all at once, and still do, because that would do incredible damage to everybody.

From my perspective, it costs about the same to deport them vs. paying welfare to the bottom tier anyway. There's very little reward either way, and great potential for damage. Either way, just shut the plebs up and move on.

H1-B on the other hand, is holding back the top-tier of workers - the people that could actually make a difference, raise a family, and live the middle-class life that this country depends on. If you break that, then the bottom tier has no teet to suck on in the first place, because you're sure as hell not getting your sugar from the executives and leisure class.

Is it ideal to let illegals in? Of course not. That doesn't mean that I'm willing to write a blank check for a concrete barrier that does nothing, or have my balls fondled every 10 minutes "for Freedom". Better to work on real issues, and ignore the bottom-level bullshit.

[DBTrek]

From my perspective, it costs about the same to deport them vs. paying welfare to the bottom tier anyway.

So, the cost of a bus ticket = cost of 70 years of social welfare + emergency room medical care?

I'm no mathematician but . . .

[SuburbanFarmer]

From my perspective, it costs about the same to deport them vs. paying welfare to the bottom tier anyway.

So, the cost of a bus ticket = cost of 70 years of social welfare + emergency room medical care?

I'm no mathematician but . . .

Bus Ticket w/Armed Guard + Entire ICE Agency, which for some reason exists in every state now with highway patrol cars + beaurocracy + civil unrest + Ridiculous wall idea + massive overhead for businesses = clusterfuck. not worth it whatsoever.

[DBTrek]

Bus Ticket w/Armed Guard + Entire ICE Agency, which for some reason exists in every state now with highway patrol cars + beaurocracy + civil unrest + Ridiculous wall idea + massive overhead for businesses = clusterfuck. not worth it whatsoever.

You didn't mention that disbanding ICE and all border security infrastructure was part of your "paying out a lifetime of benefits ain't that expensive" approach to immigration. If dismantling all that 'expensive national border security' apparatus was part of your cost calculations then I can honestly say you've impressed me - by making the most terrible national immigration plan I've ever heard even worse.

[apeman]

In The Road to Wigan Pier, Orwell describes the how the doctrinal socialists are all from the middle- and upper-classes and profess to want to smash class hierarchies, yet desperately protect their own class distinctions at any costs.

(Orwell was a Socialist who fought for the Communists during the Spanish civ war, for context)

Some things never change.

(another interesting point Orwell makes in TRtWP: he says that many plain folks main objection to socialism derives from the fact that the average professed socialist is a shitty member of society)