Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[heydaralon]

You could also be biased because the west hasn't been the worlds dumping ground for a century.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer, more peaceful and tolerant group of people. They give so much back to the world.

If I were born into a shithole, and watching my friends and neighbors get blown to shit by 5 different advanced armies every day, you'd better believe we'd be on the road to somewhere, or blowing up the world.

Most serial killers were bedwetters at an early age, had abusive or single parent households. Many were sexually assaulted by adults and people they trusted. Poverty and poor family structure is a great indicator of future criminality. With that in mind, society still has to protect itself from these sorts of people, regardless of their backstory.

You are absolutely right that muslims drew the short straw on what circumstances to be born in. You bet its completely unfair. I doubt any of us, especially me, would thrive in those conditions. That doesn't mean that this is the West's problem, or that is safe and fair for European citizens to have to deal with large numbers of war hardened culturally un-assimilated foreigners, any more than it would be fair for you and your family to have to lodge a serial rapist because he came from a broken home.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer, more peaceful and tolerant group of people. They give so much back to the world.

If I were born into a shithole, and watching my friends and neighbors get blown to shit by 5 different advanced armies every day, you'd better believe we'd be on the road to somewhere, or blowing up the world.

Most serial killers were bedwetters at an early age, had abusive or single parent households. Many were sexually assaulted by adults and people they trusted. Poverty and poor family structure is a great indicator of future criminality. With that in mind, society still has to protect itself from these sorts of people, regardless of their backstory.

You are absolutely right that muslims drew the short straw on what circumstances to be born in. You bet its completely unfair. I doubt any of us, especially me, would thrive in those conditions. That doesn't mean that this is the West's problem, or that is safe and fair for European citizens to have to deal with large numbers of war hardened culturally un-assimilated foreigners, any more than it would be fair for you and your family to have to lodge a serial rapist because he came from a broken home.

You're equating refugees to "serial rapists". That alone tells me that we're not going to find any common ground on this.

What do you expect them to do, sit and die? What should a civilized society do here, watch kids die at the gates? This is not how human beings should conduct themselves.

[heydaralon]

Many countries in Europe have youth unemployment levels approaching 40%. Is this a stable backdrop to forcibly inject an utterly different culture? How will the unemployed masses react when they realize the economy is not improving, and they are now competing with a new violent demographic of people? Its not coincidental that many far right groups are re-emerging in Europe right now. Ironically, the EU sowed the seeds for its own likely destruction.


Its not just Europe though. Imagine if Saudi Arabia experienced a 10 or 20% increase of white Christians over a period of 10 years. Do you think they would not be just as angry as many Europeans are? Lebanon and the Democratic Republic of Congo collapsed due to large migrations of unwanted people. In Lebanon's case, it was the Palestinian refugees, who harbored the PLO, tipped the demographic balance, and ultimately created a civil war that lasted a decade and a half, which Lebanon never fully recovered from. After the Rwandan genocide, hundreds of thousands of Hutus fled to the DRC and stirred up trouble there, going after the Banyamulenge (Congo Tutsis). This also led to a civil war which pushed that disgusting country over the brink, making it even more horrible. There is still conflict there that started from the Hutu migration. There is a lesson here. Large scale unwanted immigrations are disruptive and always worsen countries.

[Ph64]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer, more peaceful and tolerant group of people. They give so much back to the world.

If I were born into a shithole, and watching my friends and neighbors get blown to shit by 5 different advanced armies every day, you'd better believe we'd be on the road to somewhere, or blowing up the world.

Most serial killers were bedwetters at an early age, had abusive or single parent households. Many were sexually assaulted by adults and people they trusted. Poverty and poor family structure is a great indicator of future criminality. With that in mind, society still has to protect itself from these sorts of people, regardless of their backstory.

You are absolutely right that muslims drew the short straw on what circumstances to be born in. You bet its completely unfair. I doubt any of us, especially me, would thrive in those conditions. That doesn't mean that this is the West's problem, or that is safe and fair for European citizens to have to deal with large numbers of war hardened culturally un-assimilated foreigners, any more than it would be fair for you and your family to have to lodge a serial rapist because he came from a broken home.

You misunderstand Heydaralon, heck even I have taken in serial killers. The two I have now didn't come from poor circumstances (though their mother did), but I've taken in many that were in the past.

I call them by the right term though, "pets"... The cats are good hunters/killers, thing is though - I'm not their target. If they started purposefully attacking/hunting me, I think I might reconsider the idea.

[Okeefenokee]

You're equating refugees to "serial rapists". That alone tells me that we're not going to find any common ground on this.

What do you expect them to do, sit and die?.

GCF doesn't think you care for the rapists.

[heydaralon]

If I were born into a shithole, and watching my friends and neighbors get blown to shit by 5 different advanced armies every day, you'd better believe we'd be on the road to somewhere, or blowing up the world.

Most serial killers were bedwetters at an early age, had abusive or single parent households. Many were sexually assaulted by adults and people they trusted. Poverty and poor family structure is a great indicator of future criminality. With that in mind, society still has to protect itself from these sorts of people, regardless of their backstory.

You are absolutely right that muslims drew the short straw on what circumstances to be born in. You bet its completely unfair. I doubt any of us, especially me, would thrive in those conditions. That doesn't mean that this is the West's problem, or that is safe and fair for European citizens to have to deal with large numbers of war hardened culturally un-assimilated foreigners, any more than it would be fair for you and your family to have to lodge a serial rapist because he came from a broken home.

You're equating refugees to "serial rapists". That alone tells me that we're not going to find any common ground on this.

What do you expect them to do, sit and die? What should a civilized society do here, watch kids die at the gates? This is not how human beings should conduct themselves.

I'm not equating all of them to serial rapists, though many of them are. All I'm saying is that for just about every horrible action and horrible person in the world, there is a sad story and set of circumstances that caused them to turn out the way they did. You can pity them, but you also need to exercise common sense.

People will die in the Middle East whatever course of is taken. Merkel probably caused many thousands of them to die when she encouraged all the immigration, as many North Africans and Arabs got onto un-seaworthy vessels led by unscrupulous coyotes. The drowned toddler picture the left was so fond of showing was actually a turkish boy whose dad wanted better benefits in Europe, so he put his son on a raft, If the US and Europe decided to pump 80% of their budget into regime change, human rights, and stability in the middle east, hundreds of thousands of people in that region would die too. Saddam Hussein committed genocide during his Al Anfal campaign, and we did intervene in 2003. Did it make the situation in the region better? What course of action can you think of that would not cause people in the middle east to die? I'm not always serious on these boards, but I think the region is fascinating. It must suck to live there, and even though I dislike their culture, I feel bad for many of those people. But I think helping them the way the West is now is too much of a liability. If you were trying to sell me on setting up refugee camps in the Middle East for them, with food aid, no fly zones, or something like that, I would probably be more agreeable, as long as none of them ended up on Western soil. I just don't think this open door policy will work long term.

[SuburbanFarmer]

What open door policy? Every single refugee (coming to America at least) is vetted by ELEVEN intelligence agencies. I can't say what the ones in europe go through, but I'm sure it's similar.

Even if it's not, again, that's what police are for. Not fucking handing out tickets.

[heydaralon]

What open door policy? Every single refugee (coming to America at least) is vetted by ELEVEN intelligence agencies. I can't say what the ones in europe go through, but I'm sure it's similar.

Even if it's not, again, that's what police are for. Not fucking handing out tickets.

They are not vetted by Europe at all. How do you run a background check on someone who comes from a country where all records are destroyed, who does not have ID (which couldn't be accurately crosschecked anyway) and is probably lying to ensure they are more likely to be allowed to stay? The only thing Europe could really do is run the aliases or names the people give them, cross check it with their intelligence services, and hope that if the person is a terrorist their name is in some alphabet soup agencies database. They are actually sending their navies into the Mediterranean to pick up these refugees who are crossing in shitty lifeboats and rafts. Explain how this is anything other than open door?

Also, what would the GCF Stop-Mid-East-Kids-From-Dying look like? What steps would you take to ensure that no more middle eastern children die? Does it simply involve having Europe take the entire third world into its borders?

[heydaralon]

Even if it's not, again, that's what police are for. Not fucking handing out tickets.

I'm pretty sure that the police are there to protect taxpaying citizens. You are literally creating new crime for them to fight, when the simplest solution is to prevent people who are not citizens and have no serious or reasonable claim to being in your country out.

[SuburbanFarmer]

What open door policy? Every single refugee (coming to America at least) is vetted by ELEVEN intelligence agencies. I can't say what the ones in europe go through, but I'm sure it's similar.

Even if it's not, again, that's what police are for. Not fucking handing out tickets.

They are not vetted by Europe at all. How do you run a background check on someone who comes from a country where all records are destroyed, who does not have ID (which couldn't be accurately crosschecked anyway) and is probably lying to ensure they are more likely to be allowed to stay? The only thing Europe could really do is run the aliases or names the people give them, cross check it with their intelligence services, and hope that if the person is a terrorist their name is in some alphabet soup agencies database. They are actually sending their navies into the Mediterranean to pick up these refugees who are crossing in shitty lifeboats and rafts. Explain how this is anything other than open door?

It's more like a "hey, let's not have any more bloated toddler corpses washing up in Sicily" policy. We do the same for Cubans, just to stop them from dying.

Also, what would the GCF Stop-Mid-East-Kids-From-Dying look like? What steps would you take to ensure that no more middle eastern children die? Does it simply involve having Europe take the entire third world into its borders?

I'm not set on any one plan, but maybe we only take kids under 15 or something? Maybe we set aside areas for them to settle? Maybe we only accept families. I honestly don't know, but there is definitely a middle ground between "open door" and "watch them die".