Capitalism Cures Poverty

[Martin Hash]

How many times do I have to say that the rest of the world doesn't even understand what liberty is? If they have any idea at all, it's negative. To Europe, the concept of "individual wants over group needs" is anathema. My god, it's worth going to war over. (We did.)

[BjornP]

I don't believe Swedes (or Danes) or English-speakers have a word for Isaiah Berlin's "freedom to", btw.

How do we not have words for “freedom to” when you just typed them?

I was being literal. "A word for..."

Everything is really collectivism. The Ministry of Truth says so. So accept your socialism and shut the fuck up.

Yes. Everything. An itch behind your ear, stepping on a rusty nail, slipping on ice, torturing panda bears and really everything you do by yourself is really collectivism. Dats liek rly whaddamsayin'.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

So I'm back to not giving a fuck about what Workers want. Ma & Pa can fire them and hire new people. Who's going to use violence to tell Ma & Pa otherwise?

Presumably, the same people who are using violence to redistribute Ma & Pa's money as subsidies.

/shrug

[BjornP]

How many times do I have to say that the rest of the world doesn't even understand what liberty is? If they have any idea at all, it's negative. To Europe, the concept of "group needs over individual wants" is anathema. My god, it's worth going to war over. (We did.)

So the US never placed the interests and needs of a majority of Americans over the interests and needs of an individual American?

[Martin Hash]

So I'm back to not giving a fuck about what Workers want. Ma & Pa can fire them and hire new people. Who's going to use violence to tell Ma & Pa otherwise?

Presumably, the same people who are using violence to redistribute Ma & Pa's money as subsidies.

/shrug

There you are extending the teeny, tiny bit of latitude Ma & Pa gave you to implement "society" to become whatever you want it to be. NO, they did not say you could force them to do what you want! They only gave you a little bit of negotiating power. They didn't like it but they agreed that you could tax the excess from The Rich to improve everyone's life.

p.s. Of course, The Rich took the obligation off themselves and put in on everyone else but that's exploitation from the other direction.

[Martin Hash]

How many times do I have to say that the rest of the world doesn't even understand what liberty is? If they have any idea at all, it's negative. To Europe, the concept of "group needs over individual wants" is anathema. My god, it's worth going to war over. (We did.)

So the US never placed the interests and needs of a majority of Americans over the interests and needs of an individual American?

What?! You never heard of the American jurisprudence system we use to adjudicate such issues? You need to learn more about America. We are liberty first unless due process of law.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

So I'm back to not giving a fuck about what Workers want. Ma & Pa can fire them and hire new people. Who's going to use violence to tell Ma & Pa otherwise?

Presumably, the same people who are using violence to redistribute Ma & Pa's money as subsidies.

/shrug

There you are extending the teeny, tiny bit of latitude Ma & Pa gave you to implement "society" to become whatever you want it to be. NO, they did not say you could force them to do what you want! They only gave you a little bit of negotiating power. They didn't like it but they agreed that you could tax the excess from The Rich to improve everyone's life.

p.s. Of course, The Rich took the obligation off themselves and put in on everyone else but that's exploitation from the other direction.

Negotiating power isn't a gift from Ma & Pa, and the implementation of society benefits Ma & Pa as much as anyone else, so they can quit their bitching.

That being said, I simply don't understand why redistribution through subsidy is better than higher compensation, from either Ma & Pa's perspective, or anyone else's. The only real benefit seems to be that it allows you to think of the workers money as charity, rather than earned income.

[Martin Hash]

It's WHO GETS TO SAY. Ma & Pa get to say, NOT you.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

It's WHO GETS TO SAY. Ma & Pa get to say, NOT you.

It seems like Ma & Pa have considerably less say in how tax money is used than they do in how they pay compensation, even with some restrictions from labor laws.

And if the wages they should be paying to their employees are being subsidized by MY tax money, what the fuck good are they? They cease to be the economic engine at that point, and become nothing but rent seekers. Might as well just nationalize the under-performing grocery store if they can't generate the profit margins needed to adequately compensate their labor, or they can work their arthritic fingers to the bone doing the godamn labor themselves. If I am paying the tab, like your plan suggests, then I get the say.

Not the ideal situation for anyone.

[Martin Hash]

How can I say it any simpler: start you OWN goddamn business, and stop trying to suck off Ma & Pa.