Europe, Boring Until it's Not

[StCapps]

Yeah, the popular vote didn't really follow the party line. But the parties themselves are pretty clear on their stance on the EU. Extremely few of the politicians on the left in Britain opposed the EU. While there were quite a few coming from the conservatives, and the populist right. This forms the anti EU-rhetoric in a right wing fashion, even though a lot of the people voting to leave were classical leftists.

You just don't hear about the anti-EU leftists in the english speaking world, since EU opposition is considered a right wing issue.

And whenever someone opposed to the EU, not on the right, starts doing well, you won't hear about it, because it doesn't fit within the media's narrative that the whole EU deal is a right vs left issue.

For example the agrarian party here is doing fantastic lately. And they're really not a right wing party at all, as they've been in a coalition government with the labor party, and the socialist left. This probably won't be mentioned in British and American media, even though it's election year this year. But the right wing populist FrP might get noticed, even though they're nowhere near as opposed to the EU as the agrarian party. But they fall more in line with the British anti EU rhetoric, so it's more likely to be digested by British readers.

Most folks in English speaking nations don't hear about left wing opposition to the EU because the left wing opposition doesn't speak English enough and they lack charisma. Farage doesn't have those issues and is infinitely better salesman because of it, hence the focus is on him. No need for conspiracy, the left wing opposition needs to seriously improve it's pitch because they are getting blown out of the water by the sell job that right wing opposition has come up with, not only abroad but also in countries where traditional EU opposition has come from left.

Right-wing nationalism in opposition to EU is on the rise, your brand of opposition isn't, so step your game up. It's really that simple.

[Otern]

You don't see it, because English is your primary language. And in the English speaking countries, the anti EU rhetoric comes mainly from the right.

But this is not the case with Europe as a whole.

Get better at English then and Farage won't be as useful, until then his niche should not be underrated.

As an example. Of Norway's parties, the socialist left hates the EU, the reds hate the EU, the labor party is divided, the conservatives are pro, the populist right was pro, but has changed their stance to mildly against, because of Brexit, the centrist agrarian hate the EU, the christian democrats are somewhat opposed to it, the free market liberals are pro.

Really, the left here is against it. The same is true for a lot of other European nations. But you won't hear about it, because who the fuck wants to translate whatever moonspeak the continentals and the north speaks anyway?

The anglos ability to sell their right wing brand of opposition to the EU far exceeds your own, you might want to work on that if you ever want your brand of opposition to get traction. Farage is a better communicator, and until you get one on his level I would treat him as useful ally, far more useful in destroying the EU than anyone your side has yet fielded.

The opposition to the EU HAS to be national, as getting all the different EU opponents to fall in line in a common anti EU campaign sounds like something EU-lovers would do.

Farage is great for the anglos, but I would not follow him, no matter how much I hate the EU. If he helps tear it down, great, but I'll stay with the Norwegian agrarian line. I will not fall in line with some globalized anti EU effort, where we somehow all have to listen to the anglo rhetoric that doesn't really concern us that much.

Cooperation between the right and the left in tearing down the EU is great, but to create a narrative where all the leftists somehow has to turn into mini-Farages to oppose the EU? Nope. Lot's of reasons for the EU to fall, and Farage is just half the story, although he has touched upon issues that is more central to continental European opposition to the EU, like protection of the working class.

Well get better at selling your half of the story, or Farage is far more useful than the left wing anti-EU opposition leader will ever be.

But here's the thing. We don't need to have a common anti EU policy with the rest of Europe. The entire point of being outside of the EU, means each country can do their own thing. Norwegian anti EU sentiment is different from British, which is why we can never have a common leader.

All that matters is that enough countries turn anti EU, not that they all fall in line with some common policy. The one thing the left and the right have in common in their anti-EU rhetoric, is their stance on national sovereignty. We don't need Farage. We're having an 80% opposition to EU membership by the public anyway. We don't have to convince anglos to make Norway stay far out of the Union. Danes don't need to convince Germans to get out. And Greeks don't have to convince Brits. All countries have their different cultures and values, and different reasons for EU opposition, and to try to have them all under one banner, sounds like something Guy Verhofstadt would come up with.

EU opposition doesn't have to be global to work, because the EU is a global project, and the opposition to it is nationalistic.

Just divide it, and the EU will be defeated.

[Montegriffo]

In the by elections since the Brexit vote it has been former Labour voters in the less affluent parts of the country voting UKIP and making the Tories stronger. Cameron's fears that UKIP would split the right wing vote have been proved found-less and the opposite is actually true.
Farage just has a big mouth and does not appeal to the right like many fear apart from the more far right nationalist types.
Cameron is kicking himself for running scared of UKIP and allowing the referendum in an attempt to silence Farage.

[StCapps]

But here's the thing. We don't need to have a common anti EU policy with the rest of Europe. The entire point of being outside of the EU, means each country can do their own thing. Norwegian anti EU sentiment is different from British, which is why we can never have a common leader.

All that matters is that enough countries turn anti EU, not that they all fall in line with some common policy. The one thing the left and the right have in common in their anti-EU rhetoric, is their stance on national sovereignty. We don't need Farage. We're having an 80% opposition to EU membership by the public anyway. We don't have to convince anglos to make Norway stay far out of the Union. Danes don't need to convince Germans to get out. And Greeks don't have to convince Brits. All countries have their different cultures and values, and different reasons for EU opposition, and to try to have them all under one banner, sounds like something Guy Verhofstadt would come up with.

EU opposition doesn't have to be global to work, because the EU is a global project, and the opposition to it is nationalistic.

Just divide it, and the EU will be defeated.

But here's the thing, you can claim not to need Farage all you want, but he's doing more work to achieve the common goal of both the left and right wing opposition to the EU than any left wing opposition. So stop looking a gift horse in the mouth because you like the left-wing opposition better, the fact of the matter is the more persuasive anti-EU sales pitch is coming from the right these days, the sooner your side admits this and step their game up to help out a little a more on their own end, the better. Farage is doing all the heavy lifting, y'all can help him out anytime now.

[StCapps]

In the by elections since the Brexit vote it has been former Labour voters in the less affluent parts of the country voting UKIP and making the Tories stronger. Cameron's fears that UKIP would split the right wing vote have been proved found-less and the opposite is actually true.
Farage just has a big mouth and does not appeal to the right like many fear apart from the more far right nationalist types.
Cameron is kicking himself for running scared of UKIP and allowing the referendum in an attempt to silence Farage.

Farage's problem is that he toils in a donkey party, not that his message isn't appealing. If UKIP and the Tories merged and he won the party leadership somehow, I wouldn't sleep on the man, not that this is ever going to happen or anything, I'm just saying Farage is a better salesman than his critics give him credit for. If he ran as a Tory, he could easily win a seat in parliament, it's his party that holds him back.

[Montegriffo]

In the by elections since the Brexit vote it has been former Labour voters in the less affluent parts of the country voting UKIP and making the Tories stronger. Cameron's fears that UKIP would split the right wing vote have been proved found-less and the opposite is actually true.
Farage just has a big mouth and does not appeal to the right like many fear apart from the more far right nationalist types.
Cameron is kicking himself for running scared of UKIP and allowing the referendum in an attempt to silence Farage.

Farage's problem is that he toils in a donkey party, not that his message isn't appealing. If UKIP and the Tories merged and he won the party leadership somehow, I wouldn't sleep on the man, not that this is ever going to happen or anything, I'm just saying Farage is a better salesman than his critics give him credit for. If he ran as a Tory, he could easily win a seat in parliament, it's his party that holds him back.

You massively over estimate his popularity in England. He's too far right for the Tories they wouldn't touch him with a ten foot barge pole.
Why do you think he spends so much time in the US? His days of politics here is over apart from a role as an occasional shock jock.

[Otern]

But here's the thing, you can claim not to need Farage all you want, but he's doing more work to achieve the common goal of both the left and right wing opposition to the EU than any left wing opposition. So stop looking a gift horse in the mouth because you like the left-wing opposition better, the fact of the matter is the more persuasive anti-EU sales pitch is coming from the right these days, the sooner your side admits this and step their game up to help out a little a more on their own end, the better. Farage is doing all the heavy lifting, y'all can help him out anytime now.

The worst thing that could happen to Norwegian anti EU sentiment, would be putting Farage's face on the EU opposition as a whole. I'm glad he does a lot of good work for the anglosphere in getting them riled up against the EU. But his rhetoric wouldn't work here, because this is not Britain.

Hell, we got to 80% EU opposition without his help. We're doing fine. If we somehow adopted the British mindset, we'd look much more like Britain, 50% for the EU, 50% against. Or maybe even worse.

I'm not trying to persuade you into accepting our EU opposition, just understand that there's a difference, and you really can't have a global anti EU sentiment be as effective as a national one. Now, national EU opposition can cooperate, and work together in demolishing the EU, even though they have different reasons for doing so, but placing us all under one banner is a recipe for disaster. It'll more likely push a lot of people on the pro EU side.

[StCapps]

The worst thing that could happen to Norwegian anti EU sentiment, would be putting Farage's face on the EU opposition as a whole. I'm glad he does a lot of good work for the anglosphere in getting them riled up against the EU. But his rhetoric wouldn't work here, because this is not Britain.

Hell, we got to 80% EU opposition without his help. We're doing fine. If we somehow adopted the British mindset, we'd look much more like Britain, 50% for the EU, 50% against. Or maybe even worse.

I'm not trying to persuade you into accepting our EU opposition, just understand that there's a difference, and you really can't have a global anti EU sentiment be as effective as a national one. Now, national EU opposition can cooperate, and work together in demolishing the EU, even though they have different reasons for doing so, but placing us all under one banner is a recipe for disaster. It'll more likely push a lot of people on the pro EU side.

Who said you all need to be under one banner? I just pointing out that the in-fighting isn't very productive, and a win is a win, no matter which side gets credit. EU opposition on the left shouldn't be keen to bash on Farage, and the EU opposition on the right shouldn't been to bash on anti-EU leaders on left. That just seems obvious to me, yet I from the tone I hear from the anti-EU folks on the left is a constant distancing themselves from EU opposition on the right, instead of highlighting the similarities.

I find that attitude to be counter-productive, if the goal is for more countries to leave the EU, then you shouldn't be pointing out the flaws of your allies to aid of their opposition as often as seem to find it necessary to do, because you don't want people to get the mistaken impression that you somehow support anything Farage does because you happen to share the view that EU sucks. That isn't worth the trade off, you are doing a disservice by approaching the situation that way.

[Otern]

Who said you all need to be under one banner? I just pointing out that the in-fighting isn't very productive, and a win is a win, no matter which side gets credit. EU opposition on the left shouldn't be keen to bash on Farage, and the EU opposition on the right shouldn't been to bash on anti-EU leaders on left.

The anti EU left does not bash on Farage around these parts. They're bashing on the labor party and the conservatives for their EU support. Farage is a non issue.

[StCapps]

Who said you all need to be under one banner? I just pointing out that the in-fighting isn't very productive, and a win is a win, no matter which side gets credit. EU opposition on the left shouldn't be keen to bash on Farage, and the EU opposition on the right shouldn't been to bash on anti-EU leaders on left.

The anti EU left does not bash on Farage around these parts. They're bashing on the labor party and the conservatives for their EU support. Farage is a non issue.

Well Farage should be viewed more positively than merely neutral to those who oppose the EU, he shouldn't be a non-issue, y'all should actively be applauding him, yet the left wing opposition tries to distance themselves from him because the left wing opposition is insecure about people not realizing that opposition to EU doesn't only come from the right. Y'all need to stop being afraid that if you give Farage any praise that the media will attempt to lump you all in as fringe right wingers, stop being such pussies, that fake news shit doesn't work anymore, have faith. The opposition resorting to such ridiculously transparent smear tactics will be their undoing, because it will the decrease the effectiveness of their less transparent tactics, leaving your side to monopolize that territory and take an election victory.