Capitalism Cures Poverty

[Martin Hash]

We give "society" two arrows in their quiver because us libertyists benefit from the tradeoff: (1) a monopoly on violence, and (2) creation of money. Unfortunately, like all things, they have been exploited. We The People intended the violence to only be defensive, but The Weak have co-opted The State as an offensive weapon. And rather than money being used to inspire productivity, it has been corrupted to concentrate liberty.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I haven't used the term society to try to justify anything. I am saying that what society wants isn't relevant to the discussion, except tangentially.

Personally, I would reject the notion that 'society' is capable of wanting anything, but since you introduced the phrase, I agree that it is a useful enough short hand.

[Martin Hash]

So I'm back to not giving a fuck about what Workers want. Ma & Pa can fire them and hire new people. Who's going to use violence to tell Ma & Pa otherwise?

[DBTrek]

*Pretty sure LBJ was a Democrat, guy, Barry Goldwater was the GOP candidate, who tried to warn you of the perils of the "society" at the time.

How embarrassing. You’re right, he was a Democrat. The world makes much more sense now.

With all the shit the media gave him over Vietnam I assumed he was a Republican, because today’s media would never treat a Democrat like that. They have a full blown crisis of popular Hollywood Dems and Democrat politicians going down for being groping pervs and rapists and the media is still beating the Roy Moore drum like we can’t see what’s going on here.

[Martin Hash]

*Pretty sure LBJ was a Democrat, guy, Barry Goldwater was the GOP candidate, who tried to warn you of the perils of the "society" at the time.

How embarrassing. You’re right, he was a Democrat. The world makes much more sense now.

With all the shit the media gave him over Vietnam I assumed he was a Republican, because today’s media would never treat a Democrat like that. They have a full blown crisis of popular Hollywood Dems and Democrat politicians going down for being groping pervs and rapists and the media is still beating the Roy Moore drum like we can’t see what’s going on here.

JFK/LBJ were Liberals. By today's standards, so was Goldwater. That was 50 years ago though, there aren't many Liberals left, and people confuse the term with Democrat or Progressive.

[Speaker to Animals]

Trump is to the left of Bill Clinton on most issues, just to get a handle on how far into crazyland the progressives have driven themselves.

[BjornP]

I get the same knee jerk kick reflexes from the word Society (Samhälle in Swedish) as Smitty. It's the go to excuse for all kinds of collectivist ideas. The base upon which Socialism and Communism rests.
It means something else as well but that doesn't matter anymore. Today it's primary use is to limit liberty.

I should add that here we don't even have a word for Liberty. It's called negative freedom as in "freedom from".

You do realize that every single civilization and historical country, kingdom and republic since forever have been collectivist, right? That democracy is collectivist, that republicanism is collectivist, that monarchism is collectivist? If you want to reject collectivism outright, you can't even go to Somalia. Now, obviously there are degrees to it, and liberal democracy is naturally on the milder end, but a non-collectivist democracy is like looking for an end to infinity or an empty cup full of coffee. That you are faced with people who want to define, for you and everyone else, what society is, must be, how it should be, has nothing to do with the meaning or value of the word. It's like arguing that countries shouldn't have armies because some countries' military is inept or corrupt, or that privatization is wrong because corruption exists there, too. It's an inherently dumb way of determining the value of things, words and concepts in your society. You're essentially surrendering your language to them.

As for not having the word liberty in Swedish, do you need a word for it? Isn't making up new words or importing new words from an increasingly hysterical foreign culture pretty much what you've been doing too much of recently? If you have liberty, you don't need a word for it, and to get it, you'd need to explain the benefit of it to your freedom (not just liberty) hating fellow Swedes, anyway. I don't believe neither Swedes (or Danes) and English-speakers have a word for Isaiah Berlin's "freedom to", btw.

[Speaker to Animals]

Everything is really collectivism. The Ministry of Truth says so. So accept your socialism and shut the fuck up.

[DBTrek]

I don't believe Swedes (or Danes) or English-speakers have a word for Isaiah Berlin's "freedom to", btw.

How do we not have words for “freedom to” when you just typed them?

[BjornP]

Conservatives don't exist in Society, Society of course finds conservatism to be repugnant, conservatism is an anathema to Society.

If it wasn't for the Americans being as skeptical of your definition as I am, I'd say that must be an Anglo-American thing. You can't go through any Conservative or National Conservatives speech here without them talking about society, the values of our society, increasing wealth for our society (by arguing lower taxes for the wealthy just as they do on your side of the Atlantic). Society also comes up alot when our royals address the country, particularly the New Year's Eve speech.