Another School Shooting (Wrong Narrative Though)

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Like I said, I am certain there are loads of differences between the private and public sectors, basic and complex.

Basing budgets on projections isn't one of them.

The right of the workers to negotiate pay is debatable, but the idea that there is no one actively working against the unions on behalf of the tax payer or management is wrong.

[DBTrek]

However, most of the negotiating was done behind closed doors, as are a lot of union negotiations, so I have no idea how hard the management argued to keep the wages down. I do know that it is someone's job to advocate for the tax payer.

Oh, it’s “someone’s” job to advocate for the taxpayer, eh? You’re in near-bankrupt California, right? Part of the United States which is $20 trillion in debt? Well “someone” is doing a spectacular job at advocating for the taxpayer, rather than taking the politically expedient path of caving to demands and saying “projected revenues will pay for all this”.

You let people unionize in agencies that answer neither to profit nor sustained financial viability, make demands of a management whose primary concern is political and not economic, for wage increases that will be paid by others, and can’t see why this is any different than the forces governing the private sector.

Jesus.

[BjornP]

Bad analogies like... "Liberty = Something that doesn't cost me money", DB?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

However, most of the negotiating was done behind closed doors, as are a lot of union negotiations, so I have no idea how hard the management argued to keep the wages down. I do know that it is someone's job to advocate for the tax payer.

Oh, it’s “someone’s” job to advocate for the taxpayer, eh? You’re in near-bankrupt California, right? Part of the United States which is $20 trillion in debt? Well “someone” is doing a spectacular job at advocating for the taxpayer, rather than taking the politically expedient path of caving to demands and saying “projected revenues will pay for all this”.

You let people unionize in agencies that answer neither to profit nor sustained financial viability, make demands of a management whose primary concern is political and not economic, for wage increases that will be paid by others, and can’t see why this is any different than the forces governing the private sector.

Jesus.

A lot of pay and benefits were negotiated before the recession, and it is difficult to retroactively remove agreed upon compensation after the worker has done the work.

It sucks, but it happens.

[DBTrek]

Bad analogies like... "Liberty = Something that doesn't cost me money", DB?

HM has to employ deceptive abstraction, you have to employ straw men.

My argument stands on its own merits, have at it.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Abstractions?

I referred to two concrete events, and drew attention to the places where my knowledge was insufficient.

I guess being skeptical of your arguments can count as deception, sort of.

[DBTrek]

Skepticism is fine.
Be skeptical.

Because your whithered, blackened, raisin-like soul knows deep down in its hollow core, my assertions are right.


That’s why the counter arguments are emotionally based, and mostly ad hom.

[BjornP]

Skepticism is fine.
Be skeptical.

Because your whithered, blackened, raisin-like soul knows deep down in its hollow core, my assertions are right.


That’s why the counter arguments are emotionally based, and mostly ad hom.

Yeah, your indignation over public teachers taking your money and you not having a say at the negotiating table certainly isn't emotional... regular Vulcan, you...

[DBTrek]

The argument stands, in spite of your desperate and repeated misrepresentations. Since it has provoked such a petty response from you I’m going to keep mentioning this fact until you finally keel over in cardiac arrest.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Skepticism is fine.
Be skeptical.

Because your whithered, blackened, raisin-like soul knows deep down in its hollow core, my assertions are right.


That’s why the counter arguments are emotionally based, and mostly ad hom.

Withered and hollow as my soul is, it is hard for me to really gin up a lot of emotions... but somehow I manage it in every single argument.

Not for nothing, but a lot of public employees have been subject to spending freezes and furloughs for the past few years, Now that the economy is doing well, 5% isn't a huge ask. I mean, there could certainly be another crippling downturn, but for now, things seem to be trucking along pretty well.

If it were me, I would caution against spending increases until we see what the oddly timed and basically unprecedented tax stimulus does... but that is because I am naturally risk-averse.