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Speaker to Animals
- Posts: 38685
- Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:59 pm
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by Speaker to Animals » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:00 pm
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Speaker to Animals wrote:GrumpyCatFace wrote:
Sure. Pretty much all of human experience points to N<>NP.
You can grade a test faster than you can answer the questions. Checking against the answer sheet takes less time than solving the problems (on a math test, for example).
If you're asking for a mathematical proof, no I couldn't. But the answer is obvious - and completed much faster than any computation of the problem.
That's not what this means. And, no, there really is no "experience" that points towards either solution. Most computer scientists believe P != NP, but really have no way to prove it. It doesn't seem provable with any of the formal techniques we use today.
It's probably not provable. It's simply common sense, though.
There's no way that you could solve every problem as quickly as checking against the solution. That's ridiculous.
Did I misunderstand the article?
We don't know that it's unprovable. I will grant you that it *seems* like P != NP, but we don't really have any good reasons behind that perception or belief.
Personally, I think in this case we are dealing with the product of evolution on our brains priming us to assume a strict hierarchical nature to the universe. Seeing things in that way is how we evolved to thrive and become intelligent. But that's sort of the problem with evolution and truth. Evolution only guarantees that you evolve tools to survive in a given environment, not be capable of discerning truth. It's possible that living in a delusion has a greater impact on the reproduction of your genetics, and viewing the universe in such a hierarchical fashion provides such an advantageous delusion even if the universe is subtly "flatter" than you perceive it to be.
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SuburbanFarmer
- Posts: 25285
- Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:50 am
- Location: Ohio
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by SuburbanFarmer » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:14 pm
Speaker to Animals wrote:GrumpyCatFace wrote:Speaker to Animals wrote:
That's not what this means. And, no, there really is no "experience" that points towards either solution. Most computer scientists believe P != NP, but really have no way to prove it. It doesn't seem provable with any of the formal techniques we use today.
It's probably not provable. It's simply common sense, though.
There's no way that you could solve every problem as quickly as checking against the solution. That's ridiculous.
Did I misunderstand the article?
We don't know that it's unprovable. I will grant you that it *seems* like P != NP, but we don't really have any good reasons behind that perception or belief.
Personally, I think in this case we are dealing with the product of evolution on our brains priming us to assume a strict hierarchical nature to the universe. Seeing things in that way is how we evolved to thrive and become intelligent. But that's sort of the problem with evolution and truth. Evolution only guarantees that you evolve tools to survive in a given environment, not be capable of discerning truth. It's possible that living in a delusion has a greater impact on the reproduction of your genetics, and viewing the universe in such a hierarchical fashion provides such an advantageous delusion even if the universe is subtly "flatter" than you perceive it to be.
That’s a bit of a tangent.
If you want to disprove NP=P, you only need one example. I provided one. Therefore, N!=NP.
It’s that simple. Give me money.
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Hanarchy Montanarchy
- Posts: 5991
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:54 am
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by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:47 am
nmoore63 wrote: you simply will never move up the meritocracy.
I'm not 100% certain that timely email response is the best measure of merit.
HAIL!
Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen
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DBTrek
- Posts: 12241
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:04 pm
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by DBTrek » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:50 am
Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:nmoore63 wrote: you simply will never move up the meritocracy.
I'm not 100% certain that timely email response is the best measure of merit.
Don’t be so modest. As a Californian you’re not even sure what the word ‘merit’ means, much less how email plays into it.
“
Did whites oppress the merits too? When is the march?”
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Hanarchy Montanarchy
- Posts: 5991
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:54 am
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by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:54 am
DBTrek wrote:Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:nmoore63 wrote: you simply will never move up the meritocracy.
I'm not 100% certain that timely email response is the best measure of merit.
Don’t be so modest. As a Californian you’re not even sure what the word ‘merit’ means, much less how email plays into it.
“
Did whites oppress the merits too? When is the march?”
Fuck you, I know what merit is, and can measure it accurately when the CA seneschal issues the bi-monthly woke-percentage for each citizen.
HAIL!
Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen
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nmoore63
- Posts: 1881
- Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:10 pm
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by nmoore63 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:15 am
Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:nmoore63 wrote: you simply will never move up the meritocracy.
I'm not 100% certain that timely email response is the best measure of merit.
It isn’t.
Didn’t say it was.
But being there when needed gives the opportunity for your merit to show.
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Hanarchy Montanarchy
- Posts: 5991
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:54 am
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by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:19 am
One wonders how anyone ever managed to find opportunities to display merit before the advent of the smartphone.
HAIL!
Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen
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nmoore63
- Posts: 1881
- Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:10 pm
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by nmoore63 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:26 am
Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:One wonders how anyone ever managed to find opportunities to display merit before the advent of the smartphone.
That’s the glory of the free market baby.
Always pushing for better.
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Hanarchy Montanarchy
- Posts: 5991
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:54 am
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by Hanarchy Montanarchy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:33 am
nmoore63 wrote:Hanarchy Montanarchy wrote:One wonders how anyone ever managed to find opportunities to display merit before the advent of the smartphone.
That’s the glory of the free market baby.
Always pushing for better.
Mmmmm, more better thank you.
In the future may we never look directly at each other, and may we never be unproductive at our jobs for a single second of the day.
HAIL!
Her needs America so they won't just take his shit away like in some pussy non gun totting countries can happen.
-Hwen
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Montegriffo
- Posts: 18718
- Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:14 am
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by Montegriffo » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:35 am
make it illegal to force employees to read emails outside of the office
Your right to suck up to the boss has not been infringed.
Your right to have a work life balance is being supported.
Capitalism will survive.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.