Where Did Putin Go Wrong?

[Smitty-48]

You have it backwards. Putin made moves to align with the US after 9-11. Bush rebuffed him. We also got involved in their internal affairs with Georgia and a few other spots (which escalated to our fuckery in Ukraine a few years ago).

You have it backwards, Mr. Ivan made his moves first, when he began to try to reassert Soviet style domination of the Russian Near Abroad, which he has no mandate nor prerogative to do, and America rebuffed his attempts to weasel his way into America's good graces, because you're not going to be in America's good graces, when you start calling audibles out of the Soviet playbook again.

[ssu]

Still doesn't answer my question.

Obviously, the West made an effort to embrace Russia in the 2000s. Why didn't it work out?

Ukraine was the red line for Putin. He played by the rules, as crooked as they may be, only to have the US lead a color revolution for no other reason than to damage the Russian economy.

That seemed to be the tipping point. Georgia was all Saakashvili, but sabotaging the re-uniting of Mother Russia and her bread basket surely destroyed any hope that Putin might of had for becoming part of the Liberal World Order.

First of all, the West made the lukewarm effort actually in the 1990's, NOT in the 2000s. Yeltsin's time was the time that Russians were truly open for something totally new. When the Soviet Union crumbled, that was the honeymoon period when Russians were open to new thinking. But then, the West just thought the story Russia was over and the country would never be anything anymore.

The Kosovo war was the tipping point for the Russians.

Russia felt that NATO went over the top as unlike Slovenia, Croatia or Bosnia, Kosovo wasn't a state in the Yugoslavia, but part of Serbia. And Serbia has allways had strong ties to Russia. Heck, the US helped the Serbian opposition to overthrow Milosevic and what was the result of that? The new administration taking Serbia to be in closer alliance with Russia. (Yep, Serbia isn't applying to NATO)

In Kosovo there was the first confrontation with Russia and NATO when Russian forces deployed into the area to back up the Serbians.

[C-Mag]

During the decade following 9/11 Russia was allowing us to use their railway for military transport. We used their former bases in the Stans. We sent them a reset button and potatoes. The international community gave them Olympics and World Cup. Then, all of the sudden we realize Putin is KGB?

What did Putti-poot do? Whose caviar did he piss in? Whose sex slave did he steal?

I just want WW3 to make sense, is that too much to ask?

American Lefties realized Soviet Communism wasn't coming back. Lefties loves Russkies when they prayed to Marx, Engles and Lenin; when Russians rejected Communism, the Left rejected Russkies.

[kybkh]

Watching John Wayne’s War Ha k documentary.

What a trip. I am beginning to understand why you never see footage from the 40’s and 50’s. They don’t want you to know what you used to have.

McCarthy did not hold the line. When his political career failed so did the Great American Experiment.

The Fucking Boomers just gave it all away on a drug fueled bender.

[ssu]

American Lefties realized Soviet Communism wasn't coming back. Lefties loves Russkies when they prayed to Marx, Engles and Lenin; when Russians rejected Communism, the Left rejected Russkies.

Those were the useful idiots of Russia those days. Yeah, it was trendy back then for them to critisize the system we had and for these guys to say how great the Soviet system was by taking as granted all the Soviet propaganda.

Now similar kind of useful idiots you can find elsewhere.

[C-Mag]

American Lefties realized Soviet Communism wasn't coming back. Lefties loves Russkies when they prayed to Marx, Engles and Lenin; when Russians rejected Communism, the Left rejected Russkies.

Those were the useful idiots of Russia those days. Yeah, it was trendy back then for them to critisize the system we had and for these guys to say how great the Soviet system was by taking as granted all the Soviet propaganda.

Now similar kind of useful idiots you can find elsewhere.

Oh, I know.
BHO and Hillary gave away 20% of our Uranium to Russia to pad Hillary's POTUS run. The FBI had the goods on them and either willingingly or through coercion looked the others way.

[C-Mag]

Watching John Wayne’s War Ha k documentary.

What a trip. I am beginning to understand why you never see footage from the 40’s and 50’s. They don’t want you to know what you used to have.

McCarthy did not hold the line. When his political career failed so did the Great American Experiment.

The Fucking Boomers just gave it all away on a drug fueled bender.

Well, McCarthy was playing some political bullshit too. FDR had run most of the hardcore Commies out of the country. Sure there were a lot of folks that liked unions and the idea of socialism, but McCarthy just made things worse with his grandstanding, IMO.

No doubt Boomers pissed American Culture away. But normal folks allowed them too by not standing up to the nonesense. Now, we need to win back American Culture. Stop let people shitting all over traditional American Culture.

I just started a book series by Kurth Schlicter about his vision of how Ameirca might win back our culture. I just started Indian Country the prequel to Peoples Republic.

[Hastur]

Why is it taken for granted that it was the Russians that "went wrong"? Didn't we use to have a thread called Poking the Bear?

This map explains a lot. Georgia isn't marked on it but is located in the lower right-hand corner. Georgia and Ukraine starting to toy with the idea of a NATO membership was the final straw.



Now, thanks to Smitty, I will have this song stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

[BjornP]

During the decade following 9/11 Russia was allowing us to use their railway for military transport. We used their former bases in the Stans. We sent them a reset button and potatoes. The international community gave them Olympics and World Cup. Then, all of the sudden we realize Putin is KGB?

What did Putti-poot do? Whose caviar did he piss in? Whose sex slave did he steal?

I just want WW3 to make sense, is that too much to ask?

American Lefties realized Soviet Communism wasn't coming back. Lefties loves Russkies when they prayed to Marx, Engles and Lenin; when Russians rejected Communism, the Left rejected Russkies.

What you talking about? The far left still think Russia is a victim of unfair Western aggression, and that the only power engaging in imperialism could only be America. Only difference since then is that the far right have started parroting the same narrative.

[ssu]

Why is it taken for granted that it was the Russians that "went wrong"? Didn't we use to have a thread called Poking the Bear?

The Russians did get a lot wrong.

Remember the Commonwealth of Independent States? Nobody is talking about that organization anymore, but we still from time to time hear about the British Commonwealth.

That even Belarus is doubtfull about Russia's intensions and sometimes can be on the other side of them in issues tells a lot too.

And that those ex-Warsaw Pact countries were so willing to join NATO tells something also. There actions are totally rational in hindsight. Also what is notable that Austria, Sweden and Finland haven't joined NATO as Russia handled these ties better than it's former allies.